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  1. #761
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    You are a NF you believe in the spirit of body and soul. What do you think how big of chance there are only 16 types to describe all mankind.
    I fit all types, I am big at Te and Fe and big at Ti, but the biggest I am at crazy and thats why people call me entp. For people with small brain capacity, 16 types are necessary to explain the world, but the real wolrd is far more complex than that. One day you may be more infp and one you maybe more infj that shows already that type charactericstics are heavily mood dependant. Dont break your head about this question, it just has no clear answer
    If you were big at Te, you'd know that the number 16 doesn't explain the world, it categorizes it. Which is different, and can be very useful. :P

  2. #762
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    You are a NF you believe in the spirit of body and soul. What do you think how big of chance there are only 16 types to describe all mankind.
    I fit all types, I am big at Te and Fe and big at Ti, but the biggest I am at crazy and thats why people call me entp. For people with small brain capacity, 16 types are necessary to explain the world, but the real wolrd is far more complex than that. One day you may be more infp and one you maybe more infj that shows already that type charactericstics are heavily mood dependant. Dont break your head about this question, it just has no clear answer
    Slow down with the sexual suggestions.
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  3. #763
    I drink your milkshake. Thessaly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samvega View Post
    This is the salient point in why I just gave up on the entire INFJ thing, they cheat but refuse to see it as cheating even if their partner does, they withhold information, sugar coat, and avoid but say it's to "protect" or avoid hurting others. They call it nobel instead of acknowledging they're maintaining their comfort at the expense of others growth or well being. They take away your choice to assess the relationship by being transparent and call it "processing" which often time can take years while their partner is thinking things are fine. If you point any of this out, in even the smallest of ways, they scream and shout, deny, reinvent reality and as they often seem to proudly point out their ability to do, "door slam" you. INFJs that "door slam" are unhealthy and avoidance prone INFJs unable to set boundaries. INFJs that you feel a "push/pull" with are also unhealthy INFJs, they will exclaim otherwise but they're in denial.

    My experience is that this is the rule, there are exceptions but sadly, every INFJ thinks they are that exception which means finding the exceptions is your responsibility not theirs. The INFJs that have reached this place, they're amazing, amazing people but not in a relationship context, in a humanity, the world needs more of context.

    The INFJs taking offense to my words or swearing I'm wrong or it couldn't be true, well, you are the rule, the exceptions, they know what it took to become who they are and I am thankful you were willing to put that effort in as you offer much healing, love, compassion, and affirmation to a world seriously lacking it.
    Sounds like you're fed up with Fe too. I think it's best to adopt a very defensive strategy with NFJs. Make them prove themselves to you over and over and over again, and always judge them by their actions and not words, because their words are more fabricated than a living room curtain set.
    With dreamers, pure and simple, the imagination remains a vaguely sketched inner affair. It is not embodied in any aesthetic or practical invention. Reverie is the equivalent of weak desires. Dreamers are the aboulics of the creative imagination.

  4. #764
    Buddhist Misanthrope Samvega's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thessaly View Post
    Sounds like you're fed up with Fe too. I think it's best to adopt a very defensive strategy with NFJs. Make them prove themselves to you over and over and over again, and always judge them by their actions and not words, because their words are more fabricated than a living room curtain set.
    I wouldn't say I'm "fed up" with any function, more the misuse of said functions, being an Fe user, I've done it myself. With INFJs, I just sort of see them for what they are now and they aren't very attractive to me in terms of sharing my life with them or being emotionally invested. I like INFJs but feel INFJs are best when they focus on humanity and not personal relationships as they struggle so much with them and maybe in part people struggle to recognize the value in what INFJs can potentially offer.

    I would agree with the not listening to what they say thing, my best dating advice if anybody chooses to go down this path with an INFJ is as follows:

    1) INFJs are the least satisfied of all the types in romantic relationships this has nothing to do with their partners however so don't take it personal, just know that know matter who you are or what you do it will be the case.
    2) INFJs are extremely prone to cheating and swear it isn't so which paradoxically is why it is so.
    3) I highly doubt you will ever actually know the INFJ, they keep a lot to themselves, here's a prime example:

    "Around 1666, Isaac Newton locked himself in his room for a while and, basically, invented calculus. But despite the enormous importance of this invention, for some reason, Newton didn’t tell anyone about it for years afterwards. He mentioned some of the basics in an annotation to a footnote somewhere, and actually used calculus in his major physics works, but never published the original paper on calculus itself. A few years later, a man named Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz also invented calculus, completely independently of Newton’s work. Newton got fairly upset about this, accusing Leibniz of plagiarizing from, well, the papers that he had failed to show anybody."

    This is pretty classic INFJ behavior, lock themselves in a room, invent some important world changing shit, never mention it, get pissed when you don't acknowledge the accomplishment they never mentioned... to anybody... ever.

    4) If you feel ANY push/pull from them, run, don't walk, run!
    5) They will pull you in quickly with their desire to connect (Fe), once you're in pretty deeply, they will realize they're vulnerable and distance themselves (push/pull), if this happens, end things.
    6) I would not have sex with an INFJ for at least 3 months, seriously, they aren't made for it, get past #5 first and see what's there, proceed accordingly.

  5. #765
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    I think I agree with Samvega that INFJs are generally the least satisfied of all types in romantic relationships. Even in a hypothetical way, I just want more than I think I would be likely to get in the way of getting intimacy at the same time as shared goals, shared faith, similar attitudes towards family, some freedom, contribution to practical matters etc. I don't think any of those things are bad to want, nor do I think I am looking for a perfect man, or have a laundry list of attributes I want in a person that must tick off all the boxes. It's just that as I look around me, I truly don't think I would be content in the vast majority of situations I see. While gratitude and optimism isn't that difficult for me, I always would be looking towards how things could be, instead of how things are.

    I can see how many INFJs and cheating could go together, but I disagree that it's basic to every INFJ's nature. I think it's more an unhealthy way of coping or communicating that when things aren't going well, an INFJ could be susceptible to (as every type could be prone to do, but triggered by different reasons and circumstances/motivations than the next type). When I've been in relationships, even in the longest term one, which wasn't going smoothly, I don't remember ever feeling the slightest temptation towards cheating. If I'm in, I'm in. I think it's when people have given up hope, or when they quit communicating that they are most vulnerable to that happening.

    You are right that INFJs tend to do thinking about stuff that matters, but are bad at getting around to ever doing anything with it that would make that information useful to a wider audience. It feels really overwhelming to create what you can only hazily see in your mind's eye and the more important it is, the harder it is to do. Very annoying, I'm sure and certainly not fair for them to be upset about if they won't do something with it.

    I don't really think that the push/pull vulnerability thing is an inherent part of INFJ nature either. I do think it is common though in INFJs who have been hurt and are not functioning in a healthy way. For that reason, I wouldn't rush into a relationship with them, till I really knew what I was working with.

    Agree about waiting to have sex - I guess I know some promiscuous INFJs, but generally, they need more time for anything than a lot of types because of processing time. More time to get to know people, more time to get close to people, more time to interact with people, more time after a break up. The processing time comment isn't 100% fair. I mean, it is a legitimate thing and it's only after seeing a pattern emerge and also trying our best to change it in some way that it will get brought into the open. I can absolutely see how others might not be up for that though and I also see how it feels unfair to process it all internally and then pronounce a verdict.

    I think that INFJs are more prone to hiding things they are embarrassed or ashamed of, or staying quiet when they shouldn't than they are to straight up lying. That is problematic because it is lying nonetheless and has to be faced as such. For me, in part it's a matter of not wanting to disappoint, but it also has something to do with more than that, at least for me. I don't think it is a matter of trying to be duplicitous and create a persona or to dupe anyone. As I've gotten older, I've recognized more and more where I tend to want to bridge the gap between who I am right now, and how I want other people to experience who I am. I don't think it's that I want to stay bad and just pretend I'm good, but rather that I so badly want to be that other person even in front of myself, but am not there. I think that's part of the danger - it doesn't seem as deceitful as it actually is. I guess I can't speak for other INFJs in that sense. In my case enneagram type probably contributes as well (1w2 so/sx). It's something I really have to be on guard about in myself though particularly with the people whose regard matters to me most. Strangely enough, I am more likely to let things hang out more in that sense in people who are acquaintances or casual friends than close family members or a significant other. On the other hand, I am pretty transparent and don't lie well at all, so as long as communication is happening between me and the other person, it is very hard to hide anything for long. Tendency towards embarrassment (especially in front of others) tends to sometimes induce unreasonable stubbornness as well, but if the person says something and then leaves me alone for a bit, I usually am pretty receptive to considering what they have to say.

    If you feel push/pull from ANYONE in a relationship, I would suggest running rather than walking (not only INFJs). I wish I had understood this a long time ago. It often indicates not knowing what you want out of the relationship (and therefore not being able to state those needs clearly), insecurity (which results in lying, or building up a false persona), or fear of vulnerability (which makes honesty and intimacy impossible). Often it also skews the balance of power towards one of the people in the relationship taking less responsibility but retaining more of the decision-making power.

  6. #766
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    hmm...

    3.5 weeks (usually ranging form 2 to 5) = the average time between the point of an INFJ being "content/happy" with a partner for outdoing the last bar of expectations, to the same partners being a worthless piece of shit for not matching a whole new bar 2 miles higher (with a complete case of amnesia in regards to the last round), rinse and repeat....

    at least that's how it was for me... what is the range for others?

    is there a statistical consistency in how long do you get between jumping through hoops?
    do some have a window larger then others? even big enough to rest so that their partner's life isn't on a living hell on a never ending horse race?

  7. #767
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    I think one of the problems is that from the outside, we appear much more malleable and pleasant than we actually are, which facilitates some other types of people superimposing their hopes of what we are on us. Then when we don't turn out to be what they hoped, they get upset. We also get more up front the more someone matters to us, which can feel like being harder on them than on others, but is in a weird sort of a way a compliment that we are invested enough and willing to feel vulnerable enough that we'll do that. I think more often than not though it is seen as an ever rising, impossible to meet bar.

  8. #768
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    I think I agree with Samvega that INFJs are generally the least satisfied of all types in romantic relationships. Even in a hypothetical way, I just want more than I think I would be likely to get in the way of getting intimacy at the same time as shared goals, shared faith, similar attitudes towards family, some freedom, contribution to practical matters etc. I don't think any of those things are bad to want, nor do I think I am looking for a perfect man, or have a laundry list of attributes I want in a person that must tick off all the boxes. It's just that as I look around me, I truly don't think I would be content in the vast majority of situations I see. While gratitude and optimism isn't that difficult for me, I always would be looking towards how things could be, instead of how things are.

    I can see how many INFJs and cheating could go together, but I disagree that it's basic to every INFJ's nature. I think it's more an unhealthy way of coping or communicating that when things aren't going well, an INFJ could be susceptible to (as every type could be prone to do, but triggered by different reasons and circumstances/motivations than the next type). When I've been in relationships, even in the longest term one, which wasn't going smoothly, I don't remember ever feeling the slightest temptation towards cheating. If I'm in, I'm in. I think it's when people have given up hope, or when they quit communicating that they are most vulnerable to that happening.

    You are right that INFJs tend to do thinking about stuff that matters, but are bad at getting around to ever doing anything with it that would make that information useful to a wider audience. It feels really overwhelming to create what you can only hazily see in your mind's eye and the more important it is, the harder it is to do. Very annoying, I'm sure and certainly not fair for them to be upset about if they won't do something with it.

    I don't really think that the push/pull vulnerability thing is an inherent part of INFJ nature either. I do think it is common though in INFJs who have been hurt and are not functioning in a healthy way. For that reason, I wouldn't rush into a relationship with them, till I really knew what I was working with.

    Agree about waiting to have sex - I guess I know some promiscuous INFJs, but generally, they need more time for anything than a lot of types because of processing time. More time to get to know people, more time to get close to people, more time to interact with people, more time after a break up. The processing time comment isn't 100% fair. I mean, it is a legitimate thing and it's only after seeing a pattern emerge and also trying our best to change it in some way that it will get brought into the open. I can absolutely see how others might not be up for that though and I also see how it feels unfair to process it all internally and then pronounce a verdict.

    I think that INFJs are more prone to hiding things they are embarrassed or ashamed of, or staying quiet when they shouldn't than they are to straight up lying. That is problematic because it is lying nonetheless and has to be faced as such. For me, in part it's a matter of not wanting to disappoint, but it also has something to do with more than that, at least for me. I don't think it is a matter of trying to be duplicitous and create a persona or to dupe anyone. As I've gotten older, I've recognized more and more where I tend to want to bridge the gap between who I am right now, and how I want other people to experience who I am. I don't think it's that I want to stay bad and just pretend I'm good, but rather that I so badly want to be that other person even in front of myself, but am not there. I think that's part of the danger - it doesn't seem as deceitful as it actually is. I guess I can't speak for other INFJs in that sense. In my case enneagram type probably contributes as well (1w2 so/sx). It's something I really have to be on guard about in myself though particularly with the people whose regard matters to me most. Strangely enough, I am more likely to let things hang out more in that sense in people who are acquaintances or casual friends than close family members or a significant other. On the other hand, I am pretty transparent and don't lie well at all, so as long as communication is happening between me and the other person, it is very hard to hide anything for long. Tendency towards embarrassment (especially in front of others) tends to sometimes induce unreasonable stubbornness as well, but if the person says something and then leaves me alone for a bit, I usually am pretty receptive to considering what they have to say.

    If you feel push/pull from ANYONE in a relationship, I would suggest running rather than walking (not only INFJs). I wish I had understood this a long time ago. It often indicates not knowing what you want out of the relationship (and therefore not being able to state those needs clearly), insecurity (which results in lying, or building up a false persona), or fear of vulnerability (which makes honesty and intimacy impossible). Often it also skews the balance of power towards one of the people in the relationship taking less responsibility but retaining more of the decision-making power.
    Spontaneity does seem to be a long way off.

  9. #769
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    I think one of the problems is that from the outside, we appear much more malleable and pleasant than we actually are, which facilitates some other types of people superimposing their hopes of what we are on us. Then when we don't turn out to be what they hoped, they get upset. We also get more up front the more someone matters to us, which can feel like being harder on them than on others, but is in a weird sort of a way a compliment that we are invested enough and willing to feel vulnerable enough that we'll do that. I think more often than not though it is seen as an ever rising, impossible to meet bar.

    This is very well stated!
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14

  10. #770
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    I.

    Me to my partner: "Hey, did you know that according to one of those discussions on that typology central site, INFJs are, among other things, more likely to cheat in relationships and also to say we don't cheat?"

    Her: "That's nice. And what does cheating have to do with someone's cognitive processes?"

    Me: "Well, you know, it's that site, and given that, it really doesn't have to make sense."



    II.

    By the way, everyone here at typologycentral should also be aware of these additional things about INFJs:

    1. The INFJ will almost always refuse to finish their pancakes, with only three bites remaining. Anyone seeking to make pancakes for an INFJ should strongly consider rerouting those yummy treats toward another type. Any other type. INFJs will pull you in with their big deceptive camel eyes and indirect comments about pancakes being yummy, but what do they actually do when they get some.

    2. The INFJ will then question how big a "bite" of pancake actually is when called on the actions described in #1 , rather than honestly trying to deal with their own pancake-eating problems.

    3. INFJs will be unwilling to use artificial maple syrup because ick it doesn't taste right, unwilling to pay for real maple syrup (what is it, liquid gold?), concerned that real maple syrup is the blood of trees and that is just freaking horrible and are the trees okay with that ... yet at the very same time, only really willing to eat the entire pancake if it has "maple syrup" on it - but not ever willing to really come out and say what kind of maple syrup is acceptable to them. WTF.

    4. And to make it worse, if you say something about all this to an INFJ, they'll immediately accuse you of not understanding what they mean when they talk about maple syrup, and will not only not finish the pancakes, but will start to selectively avoid coming to the table any time they think pancakes might be even slightly possible.

    5. INFJ women in particular are callous scheming hoydens who will take your heart, casually but with feigned intensity stomp it into little mangled bits while claiming that they are tucking it into bed with a story about happy little bunnies, sprinkle the mangled bits with the last remaining drops of real maple syrup from before they knew how much it cost to get it, and then (if that isn't bad enough) bury the resulting mixture under the roots of the nearest maple, oak or redwood tree. And if called on their cruelty or asked why oak or redwoods are acceptable, the INFJ will say that you're the illogical one and argue that they're actually doing good because the tree obviously needs your heart more than you do.

    I mean seriously, people. Trust the wisdom of typology central. Don't mess with INFJs. That Ni-Fe-Ti-Se is just ... well, you guys here already know.

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