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  1. #721
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    Thats the second time you try to direct the center of conversation towards me via out of context twists. Why not use this chance and learn in debate more about you?
    Because I want you to expose your "superior" condescending attitude... I am sure you are aware of it but opt to disguise it for self-interest... Don't you ascribe this to my over-sensitivities and inferiority complexes now please...

  2. #722
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eilonwy View Post
    @entropie, I'm not sure if you're proposing that it's all a matter of will or not. I agree with what you said about boundaries--being able to set good ones is helpful. However, I also think that MBTI, whether real or not, is reflecting some sort of actual neurological differences. I've just started looking into the role of the limbic system and how differences in brain physiology might have a role in the emotional and memory patterns that MBTI picks up on. Differences in brain chemistry or wiring may account for the differences in sensitivity. I'm interested in how and how much any of that can be changed.
    I am sure that there are fundamental differences in character caused by brain physiology. There are those experiments where criminals lost a part of the brain in an accident and suddenly became totaly loyal and brave citizens.

    I am looking on the common individual and its detailed personality. I think if you say: 'my personality is in my genes' you somehow give away your self-responsibility. Its a recurring pattern I witness often. People for example put themselves into groups, like: I belong to the nerds. And once this happenend, they finally belong to this group. They have no energy then to leave this group again and they identify majorily over these boxed thinking.

    In my eyes its a total limitation of your personality. I have been in so many groups in my life, I couldnt even tell which one I belong to and I wouldnt want to, cause there is none. I have changed personality so drastically in life thats it is probably unhealthy but possible.

    And thats why I cant believe that you are on a detailed level limited to your brain physology. Of course I have no evidence for that except my life experience.
    Regarding mbti that means even more. Mbti says someone has dominant Ti and uses it primarily. That means tho that at the same time when he uses Ti he uses his other functions as well. So in the moment the Ti-dom speaks, he is actually a TiSeFeNi-dom. Considering this dynamic the result gets blurry. There is no static no more, all life becomes dynamic, a flow of events, an interconnection between line of thoughts, cut thru by waves of feeling.

    You know what I mean ? At the end of the day the static of the mbti is its final blow and death sentence. Cause an intp is never 100% intp in his life, no he changes, behaves dynamically. Some types more other less. And if you think about it at that point every human becomes individual, you have like so many types on the Earth like people living on it. This very fundamental thought got lost in all analysis. And finally considering the dynamics and interdependencies of thought or neurones firing I cant believe your personality is majorly coded by your neurones. Its you who influences which neurones form over the course of your life and which do not. Genetics plays a part for sure, but a very little one imo.

    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    Because I want you to expose your "superior" condescending attitude... I am sure you are aware of it but opt to disguise it for self-interest... Don't you ascribe this to my over-sensitivities and inferiority complexes now please...
    Then stop interpretating things into me that are not there and listen to the words I say instead. otherwise you wont get past even the first onion ring.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  3. #723
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eilonwy View Post
    Differences in brain chemistry or wiring may account for the differences in sensitivity. I'm interested in how and how much any of that can be changed.
    relevant between 3:09 to 4:31

  4. #724
    Vulnerability Eilonwy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    I am sure that there are fundamental differences in character caused by brain physiology. There are those experiments where criminals lost a part of the brain in an accident and suddenly became totaly loyal and brave citizens.

    I am looking on the common individual and its detailed personality. I think if you say: 'my personality is in my genes' you somehow give away your self-responsibility. Its a recurring pattern I witness often. People for example put themselves into groups, like: I belong to the nerds. And once this happenend, they finally belong to this group. They have no energy then to leave this group again and they identify majorily over these boxed thinking.

    In my eyes its a total limitation of your personality. I have been in so many groups in my life, I couldnt even tell which one I belong to and I wouldnt want to, cause there is none. I have changed personality so drastically in life thats it is probably unhealthy but possible.

    And thats why I cant believe that you are on a detailed level limited to your brain physology. Of course I have no evidence for that except my life experience.
    Regarding mbti that means even more. Mbti says someone has dominant Ti and uses it primarily. That means tho that at the same time when he uses Ti he uses his other functions as well. So in the moment the Ti-dom speaks, he is actually a TiSeFeNi-dom. Considering this dynamic the result gets blurry. There is no static no more, all life becomes dynamic, a flow of events, an interconnection between line of thoughts, cut thru by waves of feeling.

    You know what I mean ? At the end of the day the static of the mbti is its final blow and death sentence. Cause an intp is never 100% intp in his life, no he changes, behaves dynamically. Some types more other less. And if you think about it at that point every human becomes individual, you have like so many types on the Earth like people living on it. This very fundamental thought got lost in all analysis. And finally considering the dynamics and interdependencies of thought or neurones firing I cant believe your personality is majorly coded by your neurones. Its you who influences which neurones form over the course of your life and which do not. Genetics plays a part for sure, but a very little one imo.
    Yeah, I do know what you mean. Like I said, I'm interested in how and how much can be changed. I have made changes throughout my life, but dealing with the emotional part has proven to be somewhat difficult and puzzling. I think we do start out with some very basic physical differences due to genetics, and somehow those are enough to effect perception early on so that the patterns form and persist. But then it's difficult to separate out what is an actual pattern from what is normal human behavior. Am I wired for a stronger flight response and that effected the way my pre-verbal mind formed (from inside and outside influences) so that there's a discernible pattern showing up in adulthood? Am I more prone to anxiety and fear? Can I change that?

    I don't think that we're too far off in our views of the matter. I may still be giving more weight to genetics than you are, though.
    Johari / Nohari

    “That we are capable only of being what we are remains our unforgivable sin.” ― Gene Wolfe

    reminder to self: "That YOU that you are so proud of is a story woven together by your interpreter module to account for as much of your behavior as it can incorporate, and it denies or rationalizes the rest." "Who's in Charge? Free Will and the Science of the Brain" by Michael S. Gazzaniga

  5. #725
    Vulnerability Eilonwy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    relevant between 3:09 to 4:31
    I get that. Hopefully, I demonstrate that I get that.*

    ETA: Really, I wish everyone here could have a fuller picture of who I was pre-caregiver burnout. Exhaustion has made a difference in how much effort I put into facing certain fears/pain and taking action.

    ETA2: *to some degree
    Johari / Nohari

    “That we are capable only of being what we are remains our unforgivable sin.” ― Gene Wolfe

    reminder to self: "That YOU that you are so proud of is a story woven together by your interpreter module to account for as much of your behavior as it can incorporate, and it denies or rationalizes the rest." "Who's in Charge? Free Will and the Science of the Brain" by Michael S. Gazzaniga

  6. #726
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eilonwy View Post
    Yeah, I do know what you mean. Like I said, I'm interested in how and how much can be changed. I have made changes throughout my life, but dealing with the emotional part has proven to be somewhat difficult and puzzling. I think we do start out with some very basic physical differences due to genetics, and somehow those are enough to effect perception early on so that the patterns form and persist. But then it's difficult to separate out what is an actual pattern from what is normal human behavior. Am I wired for a stronger flight response and that effected the way my pre-verbal mind formed (from inside and outside influences) so that there's a discernible pattern showing up in adulthood? Am I more prone to anxiety and fear? Can I change that?

    I don't think that we're too far off in our views of the matter. I may still be giving more weight to genetics than you are, though.
    We should discuss this again, I think its the utmost very basic discussion of them all, which influences all personality analysis happening later. I have to go now tho, but I'll come back.

    I think that some feelings especially the negative ones manifest more heavily and look like a wall one can not tear down. But from experience I know, with strong will, even that is possible.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  7. #727
    Vulnerability Eilonwy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    We should discuss this again, I think its the utmost very basic discussion of them all, which influences all personality analysis happening later. I have to go now tho, but I'll come back.

    I think that some feelings especially the negative ones manifest more heavily and look like a wall one can not tear down. But from experience I know, with strong will, even that is possible.
    Looking forward to discussing it.
    Johari / Nohari

    “That we are capable only of being what we are remains our unforgivable sin.” ― Gene Wolfe

    reminder to self: "That YOU that you are so proud of is a story woven together by your interpreter module to account for as much of your behavior as it can incorporate, and it denies or rationalizes the rest." "Who's in Charge? Free Will and the Science of the Brain" by Michael S. Gazzaniga

  8. #728
    Senior Member statuesquechica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    The boundaries you have are all in your head and there only.

    MBTI is everything but a good way to understand people. It is a safety net for people overwhelmed by the complexity of life. It is a categorizing tool for people who hate surprise or lack fantasy. And it is a vindication for people not to leave their own world to get to know other people, but just to put them into boxes and file them under 'understood, embering curiosity pacified'.

    Boundaries we all set for ourselves and we ourselves only. There are no people who are more sensitive than others, all people are the same sensitive. There are just people who hide behind a mask of sensitiveness, because they havent dealt with coping with getting hurt.
    Oh, how I love these quotes from entropie! He kind of reminds me of the canary in the MBTI coal mine...we are all stumbling and fumbling around in the dark trying to make sense of things but he keeps reminding us of the fallacies of this system, really any system has fallacies. I love his honesty and humor in exposing it.

    Also, my two major relationships in life have been with an INTP and an ENTP (and I use those labels loosely but I do love NTs)...both extremely intelligent in different ways. And both extremely sensitive, far more sensitive than I would have ever imagined and I am embarrassed I did not recognize it sooner. The video above from @Mane illustrates that perfectly.
    I've looked at life from both sides now
    From up and down and still somehow
    It's life's illusions I recall
    I really don't know life at all

    Joni Mitchell

  9. #729
    Vulnerability Eilonwy's Avatar
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    I started to wonder if any of you even know who Sam Kinison was. Great comedian:




    ETA: In case confusing: Sam Kinison was mentioned in the Penn Jillette video, along with Howard Stern and Richard Dawkins.
    Johari / Nohari

    “That we are capable only of being what we are remains our unforgivable sin.” ― Gene Wolfe

    reminder to self: "That YOU that you are so proud of is a story woven together by your interpreter module to account for as much of your behavior as it can incorporate, and it denies or rationalizes the rest." "Who's in Charge? Free Will and the Science of the Brain" by Michael S. Gazzaniga

  10. #730
    Junior Member EvVieNiamhNyx's Avatar
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    I feel as if I am just taking a tiny snid-bit of this that I like, but it caught my eye.

    "By contrast and backing up everything else I've said. INFJs often falsely test as INFPs, because while the ENTP is the most introverted extrovert the INFJ is the least orderly J. With MBTI these are the only two anomalies like this I'm aware of."

    I have been in a mass of confusion because I first typed as INFJ forever ago and forgot about MBTI, I took it again and got INFJ still, but I looked into MBTI in general. I read most of the types discriptions and INFP seemed to fit a lot, almost as much as INFJ and then I saw J's are neat and ordered and I am sort of ordered but not neat. I also saw INFJ poser bashing, and I do not want to a type I am not. So I have been in a search between am I INFJ or INFP? Is this really true INFJ's are the least orderly J?
    I still run for the swing sets.
    The two best feelings in the world are
    one swinging with no hands
    two swinging straight up with your feet above your head.
    I believe falling in love will feel like swinging straight up with no hands, a supported falling sensation
    .
    http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/23...e9646a3979.jpg
    Now Just Let Go

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