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  1. #711
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    The boundaries you have are all in your head and there only.

    MBTI is everything but a good way to understand people. It is a safety net for people overwhelmed by the complexity of life. It is a categorizing tool for people who hate surprise or lack fantasy. And it is a vindication for people not to leave their own world to get to know other people, but just to put them into boxes and file them under 'understood, embering curiosity pacified'.

    Boundaries we all set for ourselves and we ourselves only. There are no people who are more sensitive than others, all people are the same sensitive. There are just people who hide behind a mask of sensitiveness, because they havent dealt with coping with getting hurt.
    At least some of us are trying to understand other people as well as ourselves... There ARE people who are more sensitive than others... It depends on the individual's physiology...

    I think you are referring to being caring and altruistic or that kind of stuff and trying to say that they are just different ways of coping with life and survival, which is true...and that people are hiding behind those "positive" traits to avoid facing their inherent weaknesses (which I guess you think may be overcome but I think it still depends on our physiology and they could only be "strengthened" just to an extent, so they are based on our respective physiologies)... However, living as a society necessitates altruism, caring and sensitiveness otherwise the system collapses... so it's pointless to blame people whose physiologies are better suited to those traits as hiding behind masks... You are also hiding behind your own mask of how you can deal with hurt and not care about it... it's another coping mechanism...

  2. #712
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by March View Post
    You're totally confusing me. I was responding to a query about practical organization of message boards and who gets to choose who participates and what topics can be discussed. You seem to be taking it to a completely different, purely philosophical level.

    Of course boundaries are in our heads and of course we set them for ourselves. And one way of coping with getting blisters on our feet is to get out of the friggin' fire, right?

    I don't believe that everyone's 'the same sensitive.' Even if every person's total sensitivity adds up to X, I'm pretty sure that where and why we are sensitive differs. Not everyone's equally sensitive to the sight of spiders.
    No I believe in fact everyone is the same sensitive, cause we are all humans. For some it just has become hatred.

    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    At least some of us are trying to understand other people as well as ourselves... There ARE people who are more sensitive than others... It depends on the individual's physiology...

    I think you are referring to being caring and altruistic or that kind of stuff and trying to say that they are just different ways of coping with life and survival, which is true...and that people are hiding behind those "positive" traits to avoid facing their inherent weaknesses (which I guess you think may be overcome but I think it still depends on our physiology and they could only be "strengthened" just to an extent, so they are based on our respective physiologies)... However, living as a society necessitates altruism, caring and sensitiveness otherwise the system collapses... so it's pointless to blame people whose physiologies are better suited to those traits as hiding behind masks... You are also hiding behind your own mask of how you can deal with hurt and not care about it... it's another coping mechanism...
    You are totally overinterpreting what I have said. And thats one of your problems here. You have no structure and order in the way you think.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  3. #713
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    No I believe in fact everyone is the same sensitive, cause we are all humans. For some it just has become hatred.

    You are totally overinterpreting what I have said. And thats one of your problems here. You have no structure and order in the way you think.
    What does "sensitive" (person) mean to you? How is it the same for every human being...? And thanks for pointing out my problem...but how about your problem?

  4. #714
    Member March's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    For some it just has become hatred.
    [citation desperately needed]

    That's not a theory with a strong explanatory value, if you ask me. If I'm more sensitive to my husband ignoring me and he's more sensitive to me disliking something he does, but we're not really sensitive to the thing the other person is sensitive to, who is hating whom?

  5. #715
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    This is the base of all discussion:

    Quote Originally Posted by March
    When talking to person A, I can either give them what they need or release my expectation that they'll understand me. I can't force them to understand something they don't.
    When talking to person B, there's nothing I can do anyway except hope that I cop to their bad faith early enough and don't exhaust myself arguing a case to someone who's sticking their fingers in their ears.
    When talking to person C, I can do whatever I want and they, in return, will choose to exercise their boundaries to give me consequences or not. If they do, I can set boundaries in return. If they don't but secretly sulk at me, it's not really my problem that they don't know how boundaries work. (Although I'm sensitive enough to want to make sure they don't have to exercise their boundaries progressively, so I'll probably leave them alone if I notice they don't want to talk to me.
    When talking to person D, I can try to convince them that they really SHOULD work on their drinking problem or whatever, and they can exercise their boundary of 'If you keep pushing me about my drinking problem, I'm just not going to talk to you anymore.' Might not be the best for their health, but there's nothing you can do.
    Here I see a strong focus on the 'you' and not the 'me'. Everything here is targeting towards pleasing other people, neglecting oneself or seemingly forgetting a place for ones own opinion. That is 100% care for others, 0% care for the self. That I see as a problem.

    Then came the sensitive part: in which - and that is a recurring pattern with people - people who care 100% about others and 0% about themselves claim to be very sensitive. Basically tho that is their undoing. Because they never managed to build some self-concience they have no method of defending themselves and the world appears overly cruel or they appear overly sensitive.

    Thats very basis analysis, you never need mbti for such things.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  6. #716
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    ...I think you are referring to being caring and altruistic or that kind of stuff and trying to say that they are just different ways of coping with life and survival, which is true...and that people are hiding behind those "positive" traits to avoid facing their inherent weaknesses (which I guess you think may be overcome but I think it still depends on our physiology and they could only be "strengthened" just to an extent, so they are based on our respective physiologies)... However, living as a society necessitates altruism, caring and sensitiveness otherwise the system collapses... so it's pointless to blame people whose physiologies are better suited to those traits as hiding behind masks... You are also hiding behind your own mask of how you can deal with hurt and not care about it... it's another coping mechanism...
    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    ...You are totally overinterpreting what I have said. And thats one of your problems here. You have no structure and order in the way you think.
    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    This is the base of all discussion:

    ...Then came the sensitive part: in which - and that is a recurring pattern with people - people who care 100% about others and 0% about themselves claim to be very sensitive. Basically tho that is their undoing. Because they never managed to build some self-concience they have no method of defending themselves and the world appears overly cruel or they appear overly sensitive.

    Thats very basis analysis, you never need mbti for such things.
    You are right in part... That "weakness" creates interdependency, hence the formation of society... What you propose, the super-human alternative, is anti-social in that it rejects dependence on society... it's a hatred of society... as well as seeing those who depend on society as inferior...

    That is a Fe-inferior attitude...

  7. #717
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    You are right in part... That "weakness" creates interdependency, hence the formation of society... What you propose, the super-human alternative, is anti-social in that it rejects dependence on society... it's a hatred of society... as well as seeing those who depend on society as inferior...

    That is a Fe-inferior attitude...
    I am sorry but thats total bullshit. Its not only intellectually embarassing that you draw the 'super-human' card, it's totally wrong.

    Societies do not exclusively form because the individual is weak. Societies form so already strong individuals can become stronger.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  8. #718
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    I am sorry but thats total bullshit. Its not only intellectually embarassing that you draw the 'super-human' card, it's totally wrong.

    Societies do not exclusively form because the individual is weak. Societies form so already strong individuals can become stronger.
    Why are you sorry?

  9. #719
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    Why are you sorry?
    Thats the second time you try to direct the center of conversation towards me via out of context twists. Why not use this chance and learn in debate more about you?
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  10. #720
    Vulnerability Eilonwy's Avatar
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    @entropie, I'm not sure if you're proposing that it's all a matter of will or not. I agree with what you said about boundaries--being able to set good ones is helpful. However, I also think that MBTI, whether real or not, is reflecting some sort of actual neurological differences. I've just started looking into the role of the limbic system and how differences in brain physiology might have a role in the emotional and memory patterns that MBTI picks up on. Differences in brain chemistry or wiring may account for the differences in sensitivity. I'm interested in how and how much any of that can be changed.
    Johari / Nohari

    “That we are capable only of being what we are remains our unforgivable sin.” ― Gene Wolfe

    reminder to self: "That YOU that you are so proud of is a story woven together by your interpreter module to account for as much of your behavior as it can incorporate, and it denies or rationalizes the rest." "Who's in Charge? Free Will and the Science of the Brain" by Michael S. Gazzaniga

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