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  1. #621
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Fe is not in the way, you need it. I think one of the most concise things I've read on Fe in INFJ is on the personalitypages.com website. Here's an excerpt:



    Link: http://www.personalitypage.com/html/INFJ_per.html


    This is what I think you're doing, here, lately, in this thread and in your blog. Using your Fe on YOU in this healthy way to expand your framework and not on others for the purpose of retaining an existing one. I think there's a fair corollary in that as an Fi user I have had to learn to use Fi on OTHERS and not just me. Meaning, when people treat me badly it's not because I was wrong or stupid or deserved it somehow. I need to look OUT. As I see it and have shared in the past, it's about using your Fe IN. I wish I had better words to explain.

    Fe is your friend. It really, really is. The evidence is in the process you are experiencing. It is enabling you to expand your framework in positive ways, optimize your interactions with others, learn more about YOU in that process too. But it's a long and slow task. The only advantage I've had is a head-start since the world is not patient with Pe users and I've had to adapt from a younger age. We are all still learning, really.

    So, you have nothing to apologize for in any way.
    Nice find. It likely summarizes Pe povs regarding Je in INFJs @Mane et al.
    To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
    ~ Elbert Hubbard

    Music provides one of the clearest examples of a much deeper relation between mathematics and human experience.

  2. #622
    Vulnerability Eilonwy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    That's all I was looking for. Maybe it's the Fi-hang-up thing, but I hate to see people bending over backwards for others at the expense of who they are. It puts them at risk for self-flagellation, martyr syndrome and generally being miserable for no good reason. Otoh, the willingness to grow and integrate things is
    It just occurred to me, too, that I don't just think about these things, I immerse myself in them in order to fully experience them and try to understand them. And that's what's showing on the outside.* I can see how that can go either way--putting myself through it deliberately in order to grow, or letting it happen to me and feeling like a martyr. And it would be very easy to fall into martyrdom. That's why I try to be accountable. I might not always act responsibly, but I'll take responsibility for those acts.

    Gosh, I hope with this one that what I say and what I demonstrate match and I'm not completely fooling myself.




    ETA: Besides, I wouldn't bend over backwards for others. I'm an INFJ, which essentially means that I'm self-centered, so it's all about MEEEEEEEEEE!



    I hope everyone realizes that I'm joking.



    Or am I?



    *ETA2: And that's what I'm reporting here, on the forum, too--what the immersion experience is like for me. Admittedly, part of me can't help but want sympathy and support, but, if I'm not completely fooling myself here, then a big reason I go into so much detail about the experience is to try to inform. I know I keep mentioning it, but I've done a lot of the same thing in my blog, where I've repeatedly asked people to not respond to, or feel responsible for, the emotions I write about. I tend to forget to put the same disclaimer in my public posts.

    Sorry for all the ETA's. It's part of how the brain works, and I'm too distracted in real life to compose my thoughts better than I'm doing.
    Johari / Nohari

    “That we are capable only of being what we are remains our unforgivable sin.” ― Gene Wolfe

    reminder to self: "That YOU that you are so proud of is a story woven together by your interpreter module to account for as much of your behavior as it can incorporate, and it denies or rationalizes the rest." "Who's in Charge? Free Will and the Science of the Brain" by Michael S. Gazzaniga

  3. #623
    Vulnerability Eilonwy's Avatar
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    Throwing some thoughts out there.

    I've been thinking about my ex-husband and about what I've learned from here and it seems to me that, despite what word choices and a possible lack of some social skills when younger convey, ENTPs don't complain much. I know, I know. Some people will read that and be shocked because it will seem that all some of you do on the forum is complain, but that's not true. That's way after the fact--and after a lot of frustration from not being heard.

    Anyway, back to my ex. I've been realizing that he rarely complained, and when he did, it was mostly about his brother, and maybe his mother. Even then, after seeing what the family dynamic was in his case, his complaints were minuscule compared to what he had suffered through. Which makes me wonder how much he suffered through with me without complaining.

    I, on the other hand, complained about his family a lot. It wasn't right how they treated him. And he and I did have arguments, but it seems to me now that I was the one who initiated those. It's been so long I can't be sure, but the ones I remember were the ones I started. He was always so laid-back, so that's probably correct--that I'm the one who initiated.

    I've always believed that he left because he saw that I was emotionally miserable--he was doing it for me. And now I'm wondering if that was his way of problem solving. Instead of complaining, he would just see a problem and solve it the best he could. I think he took on more than his fair share of responsibility and didn't say anything about it, so I never knew that he was doing that. From the outside, it didn't show. I would have never guessed from his laid-back, joking exterior that he was taking on so much serious responsibility. I misinterpreted his actions based on that. And so, maybe he needed to learn to set some firm boundaries, just as much as I needed to learn to be more responsible. Speculation and guesses.
    Johari / Nohari

    “That we are capable only of being what we are remains our unforgivable sin.” ― Gene Wolfe

    reminder to self: "That YOU that you are so proud of is a story woven together by your interpreter module to account for as much of your behavior as it can incorporate, and it denies or rationalizes the rest." "Who's in Charge? Free Will and the Science of the Brain" by Michael S. Gazzaniga

  4. #624
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
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    I'm going to assume it's obvious what are the consequences of @bold in the context of intimacy, where the opposite is a necessary requirement.



    To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
    ~ Elbert Hubbard

    Music provides one of the clearest examples of a much deeper relation between mathematics and human experience.

  5. #625
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phobik View Post

    I'm going to assume it's obvious what are the consequences of @bold in the context of intimacy, where the opposite is a necessary requirement.
    This whole topic is just a clusterf#ck of people injecting their own baggage into phrases that hook some emotional response.

    What I wrote is coming from the assumption there is not yet an investment. Ergo, it would not apply to any context in which any intimacy might be established.
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

    5w4 sx/sp Johari / Nohari

  6. #626
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    This whole topic is just a clusterf#ck of people injecting their own baggage into phrases that hook some emotional response.

    What I wrote is coming from the assumption there is not yet an investment. Ergo, it would not apply to any context in which any intimacy might be established.
    Wrong thread?
    To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
    ~ Elbert Hubbard

    Music provides one of the clearest examples of a much deeper relation between mathematics and human experience.

  7. #627
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phobik View Post
    Wrong thread?

    I suppose my response was a bit of a derail from the op, it was in response to something Eilonwy said.
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

    5w4 sx/sp Johari / Nohari

  8. #628
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
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    How serendipitous.
    To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
    ~ Elbert Hubbard

    Music provides one of the clearest examples of a much deeper relation between mathematics and human experience.

  9. #629
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    Jeebus. This is still alive?

    And it's not even about the INTJ/ENFP dynamics?

    I'm going to chalk it up to being in the NF section, rather than the NT section.
    The NT section is where all animals threads go when they pine for the sweet release of death.

  10. #630
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    INFJs, do you really want to listen to nonsense like this for the rest of your lives? ^
    Yes

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