User Tag List

First 36444546474856 Last

Results 451 to 460 of 870

  1. #451
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    7,371

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    I have Ivy and bologna added, so their unofficial warnings to people pop up on my initial screen.

    #protip
    That's such a rather utilitarian view on friendship criteria.
    To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
    ~ Elbert Hubbard

    Music provides one of the clearest examples of a much deeper relation between mathematics and human experience.

  2. #452
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    4,909

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    do you think we expect too much consideration?
    It's all relative, and depends on the value judgements. ENTPs might think that you expect too much consideration for areas where they don't believe consideration should be given (and don't expect it as well), but to you, those areas are highly valued, so not receiving consideration in those areas are infringements of the deepest cuts. For example, I can be very persistent in a debate, and come at a person's thoughts/ideas in a very aggressive manner. However, if the person makes a valid point (according to me), I will reinforce it, and give them due credit. However, to them, I've already attacked them, and so, when I respond positively to their valid point, they are either thrown for a loop, that now I'm being "nice" to them, or suspicious of my motives, and not willing to "forgive and forget". While to me, this is not even a consideration, because I really placed no value on our debate determining whether we liked each other/agreed with each other, only whether we had a fruitful discussion about the topic at hand.

    For me, Fs have emotional boundaries, that don't always register with me, as they can be very nuanced or not even something that I think is worth setting up boundaries for (protecting).

    Understanding what each of us value (which is not simply about ENTP versus INFJ, but individual to individual), and finding the area in those two circles, where the overlap can occur (think Venn diagram), and coming together from that place, would achieve the most productive dialogue. Else, if the circles are disparate, then the aim is to find a way (if any, or, if worth it), to bring the circles in close enough proximity for an overlap to eventually occur, and then, and only then, work on building from that place of overlap/shared values.


    i'm in a conflict right now that could be headed for exactly what you're describing. a few things have added up, with the result that i feel dismissed, and i feel like my needs were ignored. i've certainly struggled to not play the judge and jury, and just really focus on what i need and what my entp friend might be needing too, and just allowing myself to see the conflict clearly without unneeded judgment, but recently i've felt it getting away from me. there's a sense of me that understands that playing by your own rules is generally not the way to best guess what consideration others might need, which i can understand. not feeling like the other person is going to try to respect and take care of what is true for you, however, doesn't really feel like friendship, either. this is maybe the point where difficulty seeing the long-view, and really having a balanced sense of the story, is really challenging for me.
    Are you able to hazard a guess at what he/she is perceiving from you/about you, which is creating the conflict, the resistance, from him/her?

    anyway, i don't know if part of the "finality" that you notice is because we are more likely to aim not just at the facts but at the interpretation. if instead of in a laying out the facts kind of way, we focus on conveying how they fit together. maybe a moral imperative does do too much of the work for us, rather than simply describing what has happened for us.
    We all interpret facts, contextualize it. How facts fit, or do not fit, together within the premise of a discussion - ENTPs can excel at this. It allows us to sometimes bring in facts or discount facts, and lay out a logical reason for its inclusion/exclusion to the topic at hand. It's how we one-up.

    But, I do believe it lies in the interpretation, more specifically, the lens through which we interpret, the values we use to interpret. Which are different for ENTPs and INFJs, and even more so, from individual to individual. So, yes, the moral imperative definitely plays more of a role, for INFJs, moreso than ENTPs, for a more broader range of topics, and for different topics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    I wouldn’t go so far as to equate them with memory, but both Ni and Si rely heavily on experiential data. I think that Ji values/prioritizes the a priori- but introverted perceiving can’t prioritize it without some experiential data to back it up. So….I don’t know, I wouldn’t call it ‘memory’ exactly, but something an awful lot like memory comes into play?
    I agree, completely. And that's a really good way of describing it, the bolded. I just think that functions, being tools, means that Pi, as a tool, taps into the memory of our experiental data, and it is not within the user's conscious control, it's subconscious. Pi is not a vessel that holds the experiental data. It functions to perceive the experiental data, stored within our memory, in a certain way (leading to the difference in perceptions between Ni and Si).

    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    Perhaps all of them are just different manifestations\methods of information storage, recall and memorization...?
    Not quite. Recall is not a method of information (memory) storage. Memory (information residing in your mind) can be thought of in three parts, first you store the information, you encode or encrypt] the information somehow, and then you recall the information. Memorization is a method of information storage.

    In this way, I think Si and Ni (Pi), taps into memory encoding and recall. Not storage.

    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    As for being judgmental, I've seen how judgmental he can be when he wants to...It's just that they are kept inside unless absolutely necessary...At those times I guess his INTJ shadow manifests itself (and Ti gets turned upside-down and whatever's stored inside the Ti gets poured out thru Te)...
    I have commented before about my INTJ shadow, it looks like a very clumsy, out of control, unhealthy INTJ. She's not squisable. Wait....that's an INTJ, in general.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    ...over extending jungiang metaphors aside:
    from the receivers end, what would be the difference between a judgement and an unfavorable conclusion?

    (this came up quite a few times)
    Judgement versus judgemental. In the former, the judgement becomes the focus, in the latter, the giver of the judgement, becomes the focus.

  3. #453
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    7,371

    Default

    I wonder if any of the discussions which have unfolded in this thread can make an uncanny case study re OP.
    To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
    ~ Elbert Hubbard

    Music provides one of the clearest examples of a much deeper relation between mathematics and human experience.

  4. #454
    Society
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Qrious View Post
    Judgement versus judgemental. In the former, the judgement becomes the focus, in the latter, the giver of the judgement, becomes the focus.
    right, but that's a social maneuver / attitude on the receiving end, its how they react to it, the experience they are reacting too in either cases is still "someone thinks something about you which you dislike".

    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    Not all judgements are unfavorable.
    no, but i have yet to have seen someone being called judgemental for giving away compliments...

    Quote Originally Posted by Odi et Amo View Post
    To me at least a judgment feels more spontaneous, while an unfavorable conclusion feels more processed. Like Ne vs Ti, in the case of an ENTP.
    that's interesting... you experience Ne speculation as judgements?

  5. #455
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    4,909

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    ...over extending jungiang metaphors aside:
    from the receivers end, what would be the difference between a judgement and an unfavorable conclusion?

    (this came up quite a few times)
    Quote Originally Posted by Qrious View Post
    Judgement versus judgemental. In the former, the judgement becomes the focus, in the latter, the giver of the judgement, becomes the focus.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    right, but that's a social maneuver / attitude on the receiving end, its how they react to it, the experience they are reacting too in either cases is still "someone thinks something about you which you dislike".
    What do you mean? Maybe I misinterpreted how you're using the word "judgement", in your original quote above. I didn't interpret "judgement" to have any negative connotation, I saw it as neutral. "Judgemental", on the other hand, has a negative connotation. Judgement doesn't necessarily always have to be "someone thinks something about you which you dislike".

  6. #456
    To here knows when... Odi et Amo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4w5 sx/sp
    Posts
    144

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    that's interesting... you experience Ne speculation as judgements?
    No, but I can see how someone might. I was speaking more generally. Speculation is a good word. Ne caters as well to sooooo much sarcasm, so frequently around NPs I'll just smile and wait a few seconds to see if they smile after saying something that could be construed as a judgment. Plus, as Qrious said, judgments aren't always negative.
    Solitude
    Comes just as it goes
    Goes as just its umbra
    Comes


    “Don't walk behind me; I may not lead. Don't walk in front of me; I may not follow. Just walk beside me and be my friend.”
    ― Albert Camus

    4w5/5w4/1w2, Neutral Good, RlxAI

  7. #457
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    2,418

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Qrious View Post
    What if they can not only read but write as well?

    Quote Originally Posted by Qrious View Post
    What if the internal functions are merely tools that can access and manipulate different parts of the brain or the psyche...? They would act as two-way portals to those parts?

    I theorize that our external functions are inlets for external information that we are attuned to....perhaps they are coming in raw form and our internal functions analyze and makes sense of them and then store them for future use...so the external functions determine the type of imcoming raw data whereas internal functions determine what's extracted out of them and stored/integrated into the psyche for future use...

    When needed, whatever stored therein is recalled (and perhaps modified/customized) thru the interior functions and then expressed and flavored externally thru our external functions...external functions dictate the style they are expressed...

    Quote Originally Posted by Qrious View Post
    How do you act against others in that state?

    Tapatalk

  8. #458
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    3,688

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    Wow. I wouldn't have seen this if state hadn't quoted it. I have flat out told you that I am ignoring your posts, and asked that- if you must quote me- you not bother addressing me and direct your questions to anyone else since I won't be reading it. I guess now I'm asking publicly as a last resort, since you are so fond of turning any kind of drama you stir up into a public spectacle, maybe this way you will finally hear it. Anything from this point on though, I'm simply going to ask the mods for support in getting you to leave me alone.
    I sorta can't believe I'm prolonging this- but a couple people have told me it's "unfair" to ask someone not to quote me so I'm going to post this. I'd like to point out that I never asked that- either in the above quote or the private message I sent months ago. I very clearly said "if you must quote me, do not address me directly because I will not be reading it". I never once asked her not to quote me.
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

    5w4 sx/sp Johari / Nohari

  9. #459
    I want my account deleted
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    6w5
    Posts
    401

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Samvega View Post
    I would call it the Fi versus the Fe but as I mentioned we all have male and female aspects to us and even in male/female dynamics the male isn't always the "butch". I can think of two male INFJs that made me think "shit, I really wish I liked guys", I would call them more "feminine" from a society perspective but I don't feel that's the proper way of expressing it. In fact, one of them I would classify as very much so all that embodies a man though he's "softer" in feel and approach, not overpowering, essentially you can see the Fe in his actions. I'm mentioning this to further highlight or give some context to gender bias playing a roll in MBTI development.
    I don't know if I'm going to articulate this correctly, but: to my perception, the energy underneath those bolded words is beautiful. Like, there's beauty in your perception and/or his actions and/or your connection and/or something related to those things. Really striking. Don't know what it means, but it's beautiful to me, whatever it is.

  10. #460
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    9w1
    Socionics
    INFj None
    Posts
    9,827

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    no, but i have yet to have seen someone being called judgemental for giving away compliments...
    Ah. I thought this was in context of MBTI. nvm
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

Similar Threads

  1. [INFJ] INFJ's - What is your job?
    By ASublett in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 49
    Last Post: 07-14-2013, 06:02 PM
  2. [INFJ] An INFJ not sympathizing...is it normal?
    By Black Hole Sun in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 05-20-2012, 10:45 PM
  3. [INFJ] INFJ and Love - Is not having it an issue that needs fixing?
    By kccrush in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 10-08-2010, 07:16 AM
  4. [INFJ] INFJ -Your heart is on your sleeve
    By harmonyizmine in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 32
    Last Post: 01-14-2010, 11:46 PM
  5. [ENTP] Who is the best partner in crime for ENTP women?
    By BlahBlahNounBlah in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 63
    Last Post: 11-28-2009, 09:32 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO