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  1. #441
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    Hey, guys! A friendly message. FYI, you all might wanna stop with the terrible personal bullshit. A good exercise might be to think of ways that you can actually hold conversations without getting all pissy with one another. One possible way is to slap people on ignore, and then exercise self-control by not bothering to read their posts.

    Another way is for mods to step in.

  2. #442
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qrious View Post

    In general, my issues with INFJ is that they have a tendency to read too much into things, and internalize it, over-think it, play the judge and jury within their minds, and I'm only privy to it, when the sentence is handed out. It can blind-side me. That, added with a deep well of emotions, can make them emotionally volatile and intense at times, which exhausts and frustrates me.

    I prefer ENFJ in this regards, because they're more forthcoming with their thought process, more likely to engage in a dialogue, rather than keep it in until the end. They're better able to communicate their feelings and thoughts, to their audience.
    Honestly, it seems to me that Ni doms have just as much a proclivity to read too much into things as Ne doms do- but I can definitely see how having it inaccessible would be aggravating. And I can see how that internal churning (making the process inaccessible to others until it's more fully baked) gives it a veneer of ‘finality’. I can remember- probably starting in my early twenties- having friends tell me “and you seemed so certain” about something, and it always felt like “What??” Because I never felt certain- but yeah, apparently it comes across that way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Qrious View Post
    I've never heard introverted functions (all lumped as one, the perceiving functions, as well as, the judging functions) to be reservoirs of information.

    Functions are tools. None of them keep information. That's one's memory, not the functions.
    I wouldn’t go so far as to equate them with memory, but both Ni and Si rely heavily on experiential data. I think that Ji values/prioritizes the a priori- but introverted perceiving can’t prioritize it without some experiential data to back it up. So….I don’t know, I wouldn’t call it ‘memory’ exactly, but something an awful lot like memory comes into play?
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

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  3. #443
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Functions war no. 5789!!!!!!

    As a random side note: I wonder what means people use to know when shit is going down in a thread? Because, almost as soon as it happens, the #s viewing the thread jumps alarmingly.

    Is there a drama alert I'm missing?

    Anyway,
    @the state i am in and @Z Buck McFate, I shall respond to you when I'm not on my phone. My fingers doth protest too much.

  4. #444
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    I wouldn’t go so far as to equate them with memory, but both Ni and Si rely heavily on experiential data. I think that Ji values/prioritizes the a priori- but introverted perceiving can’t prioritize it without some experiential data to back it up. So….I don’t know, I wouldn’t call it ‘memory’ exactly, but something an awful lot like memory comes into play?
    I had to look up a priori. I've heard the phrase but didn't know what it meant. So I'm doing the conceptual part from, you know, wikipedia.

    That said - given how Ni functions for me, I think you're onto something here. The distinction isn't memory but it is experience and experience happens in various places in time. For example: I have one clearly documented (via email archives plus knowing what visibly happened over time) example of me picking up something via Ni (or Ni-also-served-by-Se) that was going to happen but hadn't yet. For me metaphorically, it was like I could hear the music and feel that something could or would happen with that music as it progressed over time.

    When I first began picking up the information, I didn't have any way to know the detailed specifics, but I did get the feel/resonance of it, and I expressed that feel metaphorically. I also associated that metaphor and resonance (the sound and flow of the metaphorical music) with an experience that happened in my life previously. There was something similar (but not identical) about the overall flow of what was happening that I was picking up and what I had experienced. The same basic metaphor could describe both. So my use of past experience was descriptive - not predictive. Meaning, I wasn't using the past to think I knew what the present or future held (I have seen shades of that approach in my partner's Si-tert). Instead, was using it as part of my effort to describe some aspects of what I was picking up but didn't yet know consciously.

    Z Buck, does that kind of thing relate at all to what you're saying here?

  5. #445
    I want my account deleted
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qrious View Post
    As a random side note: I wonder what means people use to know when shit is going down in a thread? Because, almost as soon as it happens, the #s viewing the thread jumps alarmingly.

    Is there a drama alert I'm missing?
    I wondered about that as well, thus my very carefully hidden comment about the bat signal. My own wondering wasn't about the #s ... but it fits as well.


  6. #446
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post


    OF COURSE it's a judgmental post! Is that not patently obvious? I am admitting that I construct intricate and MASSIVE judgements about people! My primary lens is JUDGEMENT. My Ji is as deep and complex as you perceive your Pi to be. That snippet above is but a tiny fraction of conclusions I could share. Some about you too, interested? Some more supported with feeling-data and Si facts than others, yet all being refined and refined over time with more Pe, more Pe. Why do you think I advocate Ji peeps hold it open? It is practically imperative.
    I just learned something. Never thought about things in this way. I would imagine those intricate judgments would be especially characteristic of Ti doms and Fi doms because they are both introverted and judging functions.

    Quote Originally Posted by garbage View Post
    Hey, guys! A friendly message. FYI, you all might wanna stop with the terrible personal bullshit. A good exercise might be to think of ways that you can actually hold conversations without getting all pissy with one another. One possible way is to slap people on ignore, and then exercise self-control by not bothering to read their posts.

    Another way is for mods to step in.
    I agree with that.

    Please provide feedback on my Nohari and Johari Window by clicking here: Nohari/Johari

    Tri-type 639

  7. #447
    Tier 1 Member LunaLuminosity's Avatar
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    Tl;dr....... it's just awesome.


    Too bad INFJ men don't exist

  8. #448
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    How common is it for INFJs to suddenly do a 180 on something they were absolutely convinced of? It's like I hold a position even though I'm aware of and don't discount some evidence to the contrary. Then an unexpected piece of the puzzle will pop into place and I turn on a dime. And I have the same strength of conviction about the new position as I had about the old one. I do not know how the people that love me stand it. It would drive me nuts in somebody else.
    I am prone to doing this too... Any further incoming information may drastically change my conclusion of the subject matter... The conclusions are based on whatever information has accumulated about a subject at any given time... They may be voiced out when they reach a critical mass...

    Sent from my GT-I9190 using Tapatalk

  9. #449
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qrious View Post
    As a random side note: I wonder what means people use to know when shit is going down in a thread? Because, almost as soon as it happens, the #s viewing the thread jumps alarmingly.
    I have Ivy and bologna added, so their unofficial warnings to people pop up on my initial screen.

    #protip

  10. #450
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    You are correct, you don't know the whole story. And no, you didn't ask me either. But, sure, comment anyway without proper discovery. That seems really fair.

    And yes, I quoted her today, which is actually the very first time I've done it since she asked me not to "talk" to her, and for that, I will apologize. However, I've listened to the passive-aggressive spew on Pe-Ji for long enough, seen enough middle-fingers thrown towards it - her emotional tang is so strong it's impossible to ignore. This crying baby seems in tantrum-mode.

    From my perspective, you should be embarrassed to reduce my legitimate in-process Ji work to some bastardized version of Je. Fi like Ti is a rational process, and in the dominant version shows me quite clearly the slippery slope of JUDGEMENT and what that potentially can lead to. If your Pi shows you inner depths of connected perception, mine shows me the interplay of elements that erupt from the depths of judgement. To suggest I'm not using a "very self-conscious, reflective, mindful version" of my functions is grossly inaccurate here.

    Let me ask you this: if she asks for a boundary yet repeatedly and provocatively crosses the line of it, speaking negatively on the very topics I am now not "permitted" to talk about, what kind of a boundary is that? The forum then becomes her venue and I am locked out, my freedom to speak diminshed. Already you and others swarm in to "protect". Who are you really protecting her from, herself or me?

    I realize your Fe needs more from me to be able to connect with me. I get that. And I do see the effort you are making, and I appreciate that too, although you approach me as though you are educating someone who is dense and almost stupidly unaware of some type of interpersonal dynamic. Which, I might add, I haven't held against you.

    So here's my boundary: ZBuck et al need to stop following my posts and elevating the metaphorical middle-finger to Pe or me. Seems fair, no? Otherwise, the only promise I'll make is to not directly interact with her posts. And at this point, that's now an iron-clad guarantee from this moment forward.
    i don't understand or condone elevating the metaphorical middle-finger to J or to P, so i'm with you on that. in my view, we require both. all of us. it's only through both that we find balanced, adult mind. we need purpose, and we need presence. that's part of the intrinsic beauty jung describes, part of its complex symmetry. a marriage of T/F is also inherently a marriage of J/P. i respect Pe, and to me, to attack it would be to attack myself and specifically my ability to commit to my own sense of what is true for me. i have no desire to do that. i feel like Pe is positively humbling for me, not someone else's, but the way it functions within me and within all of us. it helps me relax and see what is happening. most of all, it is where i learn the necessity of practice, patience, and committing to a path as it is. for me, that means often realizing after the fact something that i did not see prior, which can be incredibly embarrassing. it's not always easy to help me see it, but i tend to appreciate people who can help support me in seeing things, in waking up in this way, on my own timetable. i'm okay with this not being a strength of mine, and with accepting that i've focused on other strengths instead. even if i realize now that to use those strengths most effectively, they cannot be their own foundation. instead, it's the other, neglected aspects that provide the balance for them to work best. to recognize this, that both aspects of us are always operating simultaneously, is where we find our true selves. in the process, one is just fed with a lot more bright light than the other. the spotlight of attention empowers one side, which we then start to side with, and which our sense of self gets entangled with developmentally. to me, the experience of individuation is something we share, as is the underlying similarity in having both sides operating always.

    i also wasn't trying to diminish Fi. that's not some empty disclaimer. i was saying, inevitably both introverted and extroverted judgment arise at all times. i was saying that being conscious of the Je side, rather than denying its role, is needed to be constructive. that's that point where we make generalizations. we can say, well obviously i had these assumptions that mean that i was only saying that they were for me, but that doesn't really link up or hold the process accountable to what it demands for itself. maybe this is still more misunderstanding of Te. and it's simply others job to hold the claims accountable to reality, rather than ask individuals to make responsible, realistic claims. i don't really know.

    i don't think i need more Fe from you. or, if i do, i might just misunderstand what that means to you. whether it's the idea of something or the experience of something, as long as its a holistic sense of connection, i don't know if it matters. if i feel heard, i feel heard. i imagine that's mostly the same for you. empathy and understanding are both part of that. compassion, regardless, works. whether it is often, sometimes, or rarely needed, i guess, is up to each individual to decide. i definitely do NOT think that Fe has a better hold on compassion. i think the broadness of either, the scope, the expansiveness, has so much more to do with how much a person can really allow themselves to see themselves as they really are, who can accept themselves, who aren't afraid of abandoning themselves in favor of judgments.

    i also don't see you as stupidly unaware of some interpersonal dynamic. i generally assume others are more aware of them than i am, especially people who generally like to be in the middle of things (when i tend to stay on the edges). i just wanted to point out a specific behavior that i could clearly see would have a negative effect on z. i have no doubt that you have the ability and the social awareness to see this.

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