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  1. #421
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    How common is it for INFJs to suddenly do a 180 on something they were absolutely convinced of? It's like I hold a position even though I'm aware of and don't discount some evidence to the contrary. Then an unexpected piece of the puzzle will pop into place and I turn on a dime. And I have the same strength of conviction about the new position as I had about the old one. I do not know how the people that love me stand it. It would drive me nuts in somebody else.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  2. #422
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post


    OF COURSE it's a judgmental post! Is that not patently obvious? I am admitting that I construct intricate and MASSIVE judgements about people! My primary lens is JUDGEMENT. My Ji is as deep and complex as you perceive your Pi to be. That snippet above is but a tiny fraction of conclusions I could share. Some about you too, interested? Some more supported with feeling-data and Si facts than others, yet all being refined and refined over time with more Pe, more Pe. Why do you think I advocate Ji peeps hold it open? It is practically imperative.

    Yet, and here's the big but - underpinning all of that, I hold open that we are all human, we are all broken somehow, we are all healing in some way and growing in other ways. You would presume to think I see myself as more than you or ZBuck or anyone else reading that and thinking myself better. But I don't. I simply see myself as EQUALLY human and fragile and broken and the best thing we can all do in this world is acknowledge the pain we feel in another human being and reach out to try to help heal it.

    You have utterly missed the point my friend. And in this venue, I have nearly run out of options to communicate more effectively.
    do me! do me!
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    Music provides one of the clearest examples of a much deeper relation between mathematics and human experience.

  3. #423
    I want my account deleted
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    How common is it for INFJs to suddenly do a 180 on something they were absolutely convinced of? It's like I hold a position even though I'm aware of and don't discount some evidence to the contrary. Then an unexpected piece of the puzzle will pop into place and I turn on a dime. And I have the same strength of conviction about the new position as I had about the old one. I do not know how the people that love me stand it. It would drive me nuts in somebody else.
    I do this a lot. Yes, it drives my INFP NUTS (eta or at least it used to, she may roll with it better now that she understands me better after all this time). She's literally used that word/phrase, "do a 180" in describing it. Assuming this is in fact an INFJ thing (and I suspect it is), I'd advise people who have to deal with this in us to keep in mind that everything we seem to believe is subject to revision with new information per cafe's description of the unexpected piece of the puzzle, and that the revision can be quite radical to the point of 180 degree change. None of my conclusions are truly final. At some level I'm always internally in a state of "waiting to see."

    (that said, I've noticed that anyone trying to take advantage of this in me by pulling on my Fe-aux to try to manipulate me given that openness to new information - and sadly, this has happened at times - will be in for a shock if they expect not to eventually get stung for trying that. It may take a while, but I do figure it out.)

  4. #424
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post


    Some about you too, interested? Some more supported with feeling-data and Si facts than others, yet all being refined and refined over time with more Pe, more Pe. Why do you think I advocate Ji peeps hold it open? It is practically imperative.
    Is this a question or a challenge? Either way, it feels like you are trying to shift your responsibility to me...do share your judgments about me if "you" want to...

    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    You have utterly missed the point my friend. And in this venue, I have nearly run out of options to communicate more
    effectively.
    Thanks for the clarification...

  5. #425
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Werebudgie View Post
    I can't say I didn't see this latest thread development coming. From like a million miles away. Sometimes I'd like the world to surprise me by not being so predictable.
    Ditto.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
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    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  6. #426
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    Is this a question or a challenge? Either way, it feels like you are trying to shift your responsibility to me...do share your judgments about me if "you" want to...
    No, I'm not going to do that. It would be pointless since I think the point is kind of lost here anyway. You are fine, yeghor. You always ask questions and I like that about you.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  7. #427
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    No, I'm not going to do that. It would be pointless since I think the point is kind of lost here anyway. You are fine, yeghor. You always ask questions and I like that about you.

  8. #428
    Buddhist Misanthrope Samvega's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Werebudgie View Post

    I'm pretty clueless about what gender means to you in your assessments of relationship dynamics in the above comments. Is it interesting/useful for you to expand on this (gender/type issues) for your own learning process? If so, please do.

    Wow, that's a pretty amazing juxtaposition IMO! On one side, you'd choose an INFJ male over any other type if you were to date men, while on the other side INFJ females aren't even a possibility for you. What do you think makes the difference for you?
    Humans are humans, I couldn't care less about gender as a rule other than women make my heart flutter and men don't, or more specifically the curves of a woman does something for me. Women built like men don't and I'm sure men built like women would but I don't see that enough to know. I tend to have more female friends but am closer to my male friends, I enjoy the non-competitive nature of women more but that's generalizing. Overall we're all made up of male and female components expressed well beyond our anatomy so when it comes to relationships I can't so much say anything about them outside of if it's working for you I support it. Am I off topic yet?

    In terms of MBTI, I have observed societies ideas of what gender should be reenforce many of the worst MBTI type qualities a type can present based on gender. INFJ females, ENTP males to name a few whereas it forces INFJ males and ENTP females to outgrow their type flaws as they're unpalatable socially based on their gender. INFP males struggle for this reason, women have a hard time seeing them as "men", they end up being the friend that likes the girl but she always chooses the asshole over him. As a result, I have often found them to over-amplify the already passive aggressive and non-comunicative aspects of their type. A situation where their type plays against them based on what roll our society thinks they should be playing. INFP women have it far easier in terms of being accepted socially in terms of gender/type which I don't think reenforces their negative type qualities as it would with say an INFJ female or INFP male, the most common gender/type combo you see with those two.

    Does that help?

  9. #429
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    ...over extending jungiang metaphors aside:
    from the receivers end, what would be the difference between a judgement and an unfavorable conclusion?

    (this came up quite a few times)

  10. #430
    To here knows when... Odi et Amo's Avatar
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    To me at least a judgment feels more spontaneous, while an unfavorable conclusion feels more processed. Like Ne vs Ti, in the case of an ENTP.
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    “Don't walk behind me; I may not lead. Don't walk in front of me; I may not follow. Just walk beside me and be my friend.”
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