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  1. #401
    Buddhist Misanthrope Samvega's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    I am confused...

    @Samvega What was your aim when you said "Me - I figured you were an INFJ, interesting to find an INFJ with blank (blank used in place of a more personal detail that isn't germane to this context)."?

    What were you hoping for when you notified the other person about their X trait being interesting (doesn't fit?) in an INFJ...?

    If you weren't hoping for anything, why did you mention it at all?

    I think the problem here is more about one person taking offense at what the other says... hence the feeling judged thing... ENTP has a Ti-reservoir (and it is not momentry, it's their personal database)... it contains collected judgments in it... They are expressed thru Ne.. whereas an INFJ expresses them thru Fe... One is just more straightforward...

    This is how I think about it... I want to learn more and revise though... non-sarcastic approach is more welcome...

    I meant:

    in·ter·est·ing

    adjective

    1. arousing curiosity or interest; holding or catching the attention.


    Somebody can correct me if I'm wrong but I think Ti is a perceiving function not a judging function. I certainly don't relate to your perception of how I work, I'm clearly willing to talk about it but I would say I'm more about deductive reasoning via Ti than judging. Honestly, I think other types fail to understand how little I care about what other people are doing, I have no interest in judgements. I see a person smoking and I don't care about it at all, I wouldn't date the person because I don't view a smoker as having the level of self care I require in a partner but that's based on the information I know about how it impacts a person not their motives for doing it or what it may or may not say about them.

  2. #402
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samvega View Post
    I meant:

    in·ter·est·ing

    adjective

    1. arousing curiosity or interest; holding or catching the attention.


    Somebody can correct me if I'm wrong but I think Ti is a perceiving function not a judging function. I certainly don't relate to your perception of how I work, I'm clearly willing to talk about it but I would say I'm more about deductive reasoning via Ti than judging. Honestly, I think other types fail to understand how little I care about what other people are doing, I have no interest in judgements. I see a person smoking and I don't care about it at all, I wouldn't date the person because I don't view a smoker as having the level of self care I require in a partner but that's based on the information I know about how it impacts a person not their motives for doing it or what it may or may not say about them.
    Could this be how it happened in your example...?

    INFJ-1 has X trait...which your Ti says doesn't fit with your deductions about INFJ...You become aware and curious about it...You inquire whether your judgment\deduction hold true, not directly but indirectly (perhaps softened thru your Fe)... and INFJ-1 picks up on it and feels judged?

    I don't take offense at every judgment though... The INFJ in your example may not be taking offense at your judgment either, but just asking for clarification on what his\her Ni picks up... Taking offense at the judgment may (for me) depend on the nature of it and the level of rapport with the person making the judgment... It doesn't necessarily mean it's a miscommunication either...

    Do you somehow take offense at others asking for clarification and if yes, why?

    I don't know (or have time atm to ponder on) how being "judgmental" differs and when\why\how it is undesirable though...?
    Last edited by yeghor; 03-18-2014 at 02:58 AM. Reason: Blue added

  3. #403
    Senior Member NK258's Avatar
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    it's really hard to explain but, it just is.
    6w7 Sx/Sp (621 or 612. Same diff :p).

  4. #404
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    @prplchknz, I think you cannot recognize the Fi\Fe-layer of interaction... You are full T (i.e. literal) when you say and read\hear things... F layer carries the subtext\emotional content of interaction, you cannot read\hear and speak the F layer...you are F-illiterate... unaware of your feelings and how your words come across... You need a T model of how F works... some kind of flowchart...
    I'm confused, did I reply to this thread?
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  5. #405
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    I'm confused, did I reply to this thread?
    Sorry about that... I would mention you but I thought it would be better to address you directly rather than in 3rd person...

    There was a reference in herein to another thread you had started...and I was responding to the thing about miscommunication that you had raised in the latter...hence the need to mention you...

  6. #406
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    Sorry about that... I would mention you but I thought it would be better to address you directly rather than in 3rd person...

    There was a reference in herein to another thread you had started...and I was responding to the thing about miscommunication that you had raised in the latter...hence the need to mention you...
    oh ok, gotcha

    btw I don't really worry about what type I am that much. All I know is there's more ts on the board I relate to than fs, of course there are some ts i don't relate to and some fs I do
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  7. #407
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    [With the disclaimer that I'm not reading many of the new posts here- I'm just responding to something I saw in yeghor's post.]


    Honestly @yeghor, I don’t think the introverted judgment in Ne/Se dom/aux “contains” much of anything- I think that’s an introverted perception thing, to “contain” previous assessments for reference/comparison. Introverted judgment is a means of assessing what's *right there*- and imo, Ne/Se dom/aux can be super judgmental (in the sense of having a strong negative opinion, or any really strong opinion)- but it’s often fleeting because they don’t have introverted perception to hold on to those assessments.

    While many NPs seem to find some kind of absolution in the way the judgments quickly disappear- as if Pe dom/aux judgment is harmless because it’s so fleeting, and “it’s not even a ‘judgment’ so much as a ‘possibility’” (so they should be able to spew as much of it aloud as they see fit without there being any consequences)- assessments expressed aloud are still assessments expressed aloud, regardless of how fleeting they are. While it’s true that a single assessment may not last- the tendency to spew these fleeting assessments, when paired with an inflated sense of entitlement to directing the reality between oneself and others, is not fleeting and can be emotionally abusive in excess (no matter how much they try to get rid of the problem by throwing yet more fleeting assessments at it....because it's the tendency to compulsively throw fleeting assessments around to control shared reality in the first place which is the problem).

    But anyway, if introverted judgment “contained” anything, then Pe doms/auxes would be more consistent.
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

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  8. #408
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    While many NPs seem to find some kind of absolution in the way the judgments quickly disappear- as if Pe dom/aux judgment is harmless because it’s so fleeting, and “it’s not even a ‘judgment’ so much as a ‘possibility’” (so they should be able to spew as much of it aloud as they see fit without there being any consequences)- assessments expressed aloud are still assessments expressed aloud, regardless of how fleeting they are. While it’s true that a single assessment may not last- the tendency to spew these fleeting assessments, when paired with an inflated sense of entitlement to directing the reality between oneself and others, is not fleeting and can be emotionally abusive in excess (no matter how much they try to get rid of the problem by throwing yet more fleeting assessments at it....because it's the tendency to compulsively throw fleeting assessments around to control shared reality in the first place which is the problem).

    But anyway, if introverted judgment “contained” anything, then Pe doms/auxes would be more consistent.
    I guess, it's in how each of us receive, and perceive, the information. From my perception, I actually find Pi/Je to be more "judgemental" in the sense that their assessments have such an air of finality to it. The difference between Pe/Ji (Out to in) and Pi/Je (In to Out), in terms of a thought thrown out there, is that Pe/Ji seems to say, "It could be....", while Pi/Je, says, "It should be...."

    This is of course not accounting for the influence of other functions, like ENTP's tertiary Fe function, where values, if crossed, certainly turns an "It could be..." to an "It should be...."

    There's also the sense that, even though they may very likely apply the same judgements to themselves, it's kept inside. However, the judgement towards others gets manifested out. So, it can appear, on the outside, that they're able to see the faults in others, but does not seem to find it in themselves.

    ******************

    In general, my issues with INFJ is that they have a tendency to read too much into things, and internalize it, over-think it, play the judge and jury within their minds, and I'm only privy to it, when the sentence is handed out. It can blind-side me. That, added with a deep well of emotions, can make them emotionally volatile and intense at times, which exhausts and frustrates me.

    I prefer ENFJ in this regards, because they're more forthcoming with their thought process, more likely to engage in a dialogue, rather than keep it in until the end. They're better able to communicate their feelings and thoughts, to their audience.

  9. #409
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    [With the disclaimer that I'm not reading many of the new posts here- I'm just responding to something I saw in yeghor's post.]


    Honestly @yeghor, I don’t think the introverted judgment in Ne/Se dom/aux “contains” much of anything- I think that’s an introverted perception thing, to “contain” previous assessments for reference/comparison. Introverted judgment is a means of assessing what's *right there*- and imo, Ne/Se dom/aux can be super judgmental (in the sense of having a strong negative opinion, or any really strong opinion)- but it’s often fleeting because they don’t have introverted perception to hold on to those assessments.

    While many NPs seem to find some kind of absolution in the way the judgments quickly disappear- as if Pe dom/aux judgment is harmless because it’s so fleeting, and “it’s not even a ‘judgment’ so much as a ‘possibility’” (so they should be able to spew as much of it aloud as they see fit without there being any consequences)- assessments expressed aloud are still assessments expressed aloud, regardless of how fleeting they are. While it’s true that a single assessment may not last- the tendency to spew these fleeting assessments, when paired with an inflated sense of entitlement to directing the reality between oneself and others, is not fleeting and can be emotionally abusive in excess (no matter how much they try to get rid of the problem by throwing yet more fleeting assessments at it....because it's the tendency to compulsively throw fleeting assessments around to control shared reality in the first place which is the problem).

    But anyway, if introverted judgment “contained” anything, then Pe doms/auxes would be more consistent.
    I see what you are saying...it's just I've always imagined introverted functions as some kind of a reservoir or database... I imagine Ni, for instance, as a reservoir of accumulated patterns...

    I still assume that somethings get stored for the long term in that Ti reservoir based on whatever external information is gathered thru the external functions (Ne and Fe)...You are saying, if I am not mistaken, that Ti is rather a deduction\analysis mechanism that analyzes whatever information it is fed momentarily...

    Perhaps Ti-doms may provide more insight on that...

  10. #410
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    I see what you are saying...it's just I've always imagined introverted functions as some kind of a reservoir or database... I imagine Ni, for instance, as a reservoir of accumulated patterns...

    I still assume that somethings get stored for the long term in that Ti reservoir based on whatever external information is gathered thru the external functions (Ne and Fe)...You are saying, if I am not mistaken, that Ti is rather a deduction\analysis mechanism that analyzes whatever information it is fed momentarily...

    Perhaps Ti-doms may provide more insight on that...
    Bolded, correct. Ne perceives the information, Ti analyses the information, finding inconsistencies, gaps, contradictions, etc.

    I've never heard introverted functions (all lumped as one, the perceiving functions, as well as, the judging functions) to be reservoirs of information.

    Functions are tools. None of them keep information. That's one's memory, not the functions.

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