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  1. #381
    Riva
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    Quote Originally Posted by digesthisickness View Post


    I've noticed a definite difference between myself (and other female ENTPs) and ENTP guys.
    Could you elaborate a bit on this difference.

    Use your ti.

  2. #382
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    ^I've noticed it too, btw. I'm not willing to explain why, at least not in this thread, but I have noticed that difference between female and male NTPs myself.

    [I was in a relationship with an ENTP for eight years, to give an idea of the experience I have.]
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

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  3. #383
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    That would render any dialogue meaningless... a dialogue is a transaction ... otherwise it turns into a monologue ... if you don't expect something from someone or the interaction, why bother with it in the first place? What's the driving force then?



    They do categorize and classify people based on their Ne deductions...that's judgment...everyone does it...some are more outspoken about it...



    Or an escape from bad memories...Nice point about Si though...My ENTP friend seems to forget who I really am sometimes...as if he doesn't have this long-term static/stable image of me...



    It's what the dominant function do for all of us...make sense of the world...The thing between ENTPs and INFJs maybe due to that they can understand where the other comes from and wants to achieve but detest the means employed...

    Check this clip to see how an Ne-dom can throw judgments around



    Those aren't judgments, they're deducted possibilities, combining perceiving data and structuring it in a feedback loop spanning all functions, from Ne expansion, to Ti to inferior Si memory. The least - intentionally, usually called button pushing - displayed function is tertiary Fe, in order to feed the feedback loop, and attest the possibilities, seen at the end.
    To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
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    Music provides one of the clearest examples of a much deeper relation between mathematics and human experience.

  4. #384
    ndovjtjcaqidthi
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    Quote Originally Posted by phobik View Post
    LOL.

  5. #385
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phobik View Post


    Those aren't judgments, they're deducted possibilities, combining perceiving data and structuring it in a feedback loop spanning all functions, from Ne expansion, to Ti to inferior Si memory. The least - intentionally, usually called button pushing - displayed function is tertiary Fe, in order to feed the feedback loop, and attest the possibilities, seen at the end.
    Well, I think they are coming from the auxiliary judging function...Ne is only propelling them outwards at the external object in question form and checking incoming reactions...
    '
    At first Ne and Fe in Will is perceiving internalizing data about Robin Williams' character...it's quick, rough but somewhat accurate...Then the internalized preliminary data gets analyzed thru Ti-tert and perhaps Si-inf, but mostly thru the former...

    This analysis makes consecutive judgments about the internalized version [image] of the external object...and those judgments are propelled to the external object thru Ne in form of questions\possibilities...which in turn yield more reactionary data to be perceived by Ne and Fe...and the loop goes on till the internally accumulated data about the external object yields a sufficiently resolute internal image of the external object...hence the true form of the external object gets recognized by the ENTP...

    ENTP is constantly passing on judgment about the external object...it's just that they are expressed externally in question form...

  6. #386
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    Well, I think they are coming from the auxiliary judging function...Ne is only propelling them outwards at the external object in question form and checking incoming reactions...
    '
    At first Ne and Fe in Will is perceiving internalizing data about Robin Williams' character...it's quick, rough but somewhat accurate...Then the internalized preliminary data gets analyzed thru Ti-tert and perhaps Si-inf, but mostly thru the former...

    This analysis makes consecutive judgments about the internalized version [image] of the external object...and those judgments are propelled to the external object thru Ne in form of questions\possibilities...which in turn yield more reactionary data to be perceived by Ne and Fe...and the loop goes on till the internally accumulated data about the external object yields a sufficiently resolute internal image of the external object...hence the true form of the external object gets recognized by the ENTP...

    ENTP is constantly passing on judgment about the external object...it's just that they are expressed externally in question form...
    So, besides repeating what I said in a more pedantic way, you're also informing us how ENTP is a type with a capacity for, and a frequent use of, a judging function in their mental arsenal. Fascinating.
    To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
    ~ Elbert Hubbard

    Music provides one of the clearest examples of a much deeper relation between mathematics and human experience.

  7. #387
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phobik View Post
    So, besides repeating what I said in a more pedantic way, you're also informing us how ENTP is a type with a capacity for, and a frequent use of, a judging function in their mental arsenal. Fascinating.

  8. #388
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    ^I've noticed it too, btw. I'm not willing to explain why, at least not in this thread, but I have noticed that difference between female and male NTPs myself.

    [I was in a relationship with an ENTP for eight years, to give an idea of the experience I have.]
    why did you murder him. and where's the body?
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

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    ... In theory.

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  9. #389
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    why did you murder him. and where's the body?
    It was a few years ago. I can't rightly remember, on either count.
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

    5w4 sx/sp Johari / Nohari

  10. #390
    I want my account deleted
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samvega View Post
    @fia I find it curious that you view ENTPs as judgmental as function wise the ENTP and ENFP would be the very least judgmental of all the MBTI types. I have never met one I felt this way about, I could tell any of the ENPs I know pretty much anything with zero fear of judgment. It has been my experience that INFJs that aren't comfortable with themselves will view us that way due to a tendency to add emotions relating to their perception to statements. A made up example:

    ENTP - You're skinny. (nothing more than a statement of their perception, neither good nor bad)

    INFJ - What are you saying?

    ENTP - That you're skinny.

    The INFJ will then take the statement and depending on how they perceive themselves assume anything from the ENTP judging how much they eat to them saying they have an eating disorder.

    To actually quote a real life INFJ example like I'm talking about from a few days ago I will quote the actual text conversation:

    INFJ - I'm an INFJ

    Me - I figured you were an INFJ, interesting to find an INFJ with blank (blank used in place of a more personal detail that isn't germane to this context).

    INFJ- Why is an INFJ with blank strange? And what's your type?

    Me - Now see what you did there, I said "interesting" and you converted it to "strange".

    INFJ - You're right I did.

    INFJ - I wonder why I converted "interesting" to "strange"... Maybe I read into your observation and subconsciously attached a negative connotation to the word "interesting".
    I found this ^ ^ fascinating.

    Disclaimer: I'm more than a bit wary of sharing my musings here because I can already see several ways it could yield a useless clusterf*ck of TypeC weirdness. But because I really am interested in this topic right now, will try it anyway.

    Given this thread - especially my dialogue there with @prplchknz plus a subsequent discussion about that conversation with my INFP partner, I've been thinking about two different modes of communication (if not, more broadly, two different modes of processing language): literal, and contextual-associational. My INFP partner, prpl, and you in this example are using language flat-out literally, while your INFJ friend (and me, and possibly other INFJs and other people/types who do this) take a more contextual and/or associational approach to language and communication.

    Oh and I want to be clear (because this is TypeC after all) that for me this is a matter of equally valid difference, not a "one is better and the other sucks so let's rant about types/functions we don't like" approach.

    So. Anyway. In my experience when the literal approach meets the contextual-associational in interaction, things can get confusing and misunderstandings can happen. I've certainly seen that in my own relationship.

    I've been trying to figure out how to describe what it's like to have a contextual/associational approach to language and communication. One way I could say it is that for me, words are simply the surface layer of meaning, not ever the complete meaning (not even close). I've wondered (since I started consciously thinking about this yesterday) if this is related to the Ni tendency to look underneath the visible surface for meaning. I know for me, words don't do justice to reality in any way, so for me any use of words is more like a marker saying "meaning underneath" than a complete communication. So when I use words, and when I hear/read words, there are all sorts of other factors that come in for my understanding. The larger context of the discussion. Things like: non-linear patterns of understanding from previously received information from and about the person, if relevant. My own internal association chains of meaning. Etc.

    My INFP partner, on the other hand, can and often does use words very literally. The above-referenced conversation with prplchknz raised that into consciousness for me and yielded an interesting discussion between my partner and I last night. For us, understanding this difference helps us understand our dynamic.

    I haven't seen this come up in my interactions with my ENTP friend, though. Or if it has, I haven't noticed it. I may ask her. And I don't know if differences in this regard are closely related to MBTI type or if this is in another layer of human diversity. That said - if it is true that INFPs and ENTPs tend more to the literal communication side, and INFJs tend more to the contextual-associational side, then am I correct in thinking that the difference might relate to Ni/Ne?

    Also: I have no idea if what I'm calling literal versus contextual-associational communication is actually a thing that anyone has looked at/documented in a more rigorous way. If it is I'd love to get more info on that. I've been lazy and haven't done much searching yet.

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