• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

[MBTI General] INFJ Compatibility - Why the INFJ/ENTP dynamic is hands down the best.

yeghor

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 21, 2013
Messages
4,276
Thats the second time you try to direct the center of conversation towards me via out of context twists. Why not use this chance and learn in debate more about you?

Because I want you to expose your "superior" condescending attitude... I am sure you are aware of it but opt to disguise it for self-interest... Don't you ascribe this to my over-sensitivities and inferiority complexes now please...
 

entropie

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 24, 2008
Messages
16,767
MBTI Type
entp
Enneagram
783
@entropie, I'm not sure if you're proposing that it's all a matter of will or not. I agree with what you said about boundaries--being able to set good ones is helpful. However, I also think that MBTI, whether real or not, is reflecting some sort of actual neurological differences. I've just started looking into the role of the limbic system and how differences in brain physiology might have a role in the emotional and memory patterns that MBTI picks up on. Differences in brain chemistry or wiring may account for the differences in sensitivity. I'm interested in how and how much any of that can be changed.

I am sure that there are fundamental differences in character caused by brain physiology. There are those experiments where criminals lost a part of the brain in an accident and suddenly became totaly loyal and brave citizens.

I am looking on the common individual and its detailed personality. I think if you say: 'my personality is in my genes' you somehow give away your self-responsibility. Its a recurring pattern I witness often. People for example put themselves into groups, like: I belong to the nerds. And once this happenend, they finally belong to this group. They have no energy then to leave this group again and they identify majorily over these boxed thinking.

In my eyes its a total limitation of your personality. I have been in so many groups in my life, I couldnt even tell which one I belong to and I wouldnt want to, cause there is none. I have changed personality so drastically in life thats it is probably unhealthy but possible.

And thats why I cant believe that you are on a detailed level limited to your brain physology. Of course I have no evidence for that except my life experience.
Regarding mbti that means even more. Mbti says someone has dominant Ti and uses it primarily. That means tho that at the same time when he uses Ti he uses his other functions as well. So in the moment the Ti-dom speaks, he is actually a TiSeFeNi-dom. Considering this dynamic the result gets blurry. There is no static no more, all life becomes dynamic, a flow of events, an interconnection between line of thoughts, cut thru by waves of feeling.

You know what I mean ? At the end of the day the static of the mbti is its final blow and death sentence. Cause an intp is never 100% intp in his life, no he changes, behaves dynamically. Some types more other less. And if you think about it at that point every human becomes individual, you have like so many types on the Earth like people living on it. This very fundamental thought got lost in all analysis. And finally considering the dynamics and interdependencies of thought or neurones firing I cant believe your personality is majorly coded by your neurones. Its you who influences which neurones form over the course of your life and which do not. Genetics plays a part for sure, but a very little one imo.

Because I want you to expose your "superior" condescending attitude... I am sure you are aware of it but opt to disguise it for self-interest... Don't you ascribe this to my over-sensitivities and inferiority complexes now please...

Then stop interpretating things into me that are not there and listen to the words I say instead. otherwise you wont get past even the first onion ring.
 

Eilonwy

Vulnerability
Joined
Oct 12, 2009
Messages
7,051
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
I am sure that there are fundamental differences in character caused by brain physiology. There are those experiments where criminals lost a part of the brain in an accident and suddenly became totaly loyal and brave citizens.

I am looking on the common individual and its detailed personality. I think if you say: 'my personality is in my genes' you somehow give away your self-responsibility. Its a recurring pattern I witness often. People for example put themselves into groups, like: I belong to the nerds. And once this happenend, they finally belong to this group. They have no energy then to leave this group again and they identify majorily over these boxed thinking.

In my eyes its a total limitation of your personality. I have been in so many groups in my life, I couldnt even tell which one I belong to and I wouldnt want to, cause there is none. I have changed personality so drastically in life thats it is probably unhealthy but possible.

And thats why I cant believe that you are on a detailed level limited to your brain physology. Of course I have no evidence for that except my life experience.
Regarding mbti that means even more. Mbti says someone has dominant Ti and uses it primarily. That means tho that at the same time when he uses Ti he uses his other functions as well. So in the moment the Ti-dom speaks, he is actually a TiSeFeNi-dom. Considering this dynamic the result gets blurry. There is no static no more, all life becomes dynamic, a flow of events, an interconnection between line of thoughts, cut thru by waves of feeling.

You know what I mean ? At the end of the day the static of the mbti is its final blow and death sentence. Cause an intp is never 100% intp in his life, no he changes, behaves dynamically. Some types more other less. And if you think about it at that point every human becomes individual, you have like so many types on the Earth like people living on it. This very fundamental thought got lost in all analysis. And finally considering the dynamics and interdependencies of thought or neurones firing I cant believe your personality is majorly coded by your neurones. Its you who influences which neurones form over the course of your life and which do not. Genetics plays a part for sure, but a very little one imo.

Yeah, I do know what you mean. Like I said, I'm interested in how and how much can be changed. I have made changes throughout my life, but dealing with the emotional part has proven to be somewhat difficult and puzzling. I think we do start out with some very basic physical differences due to genetics, and somehow those are enough to effect perception early on so that the patterns form and persist. But then it's difficult to separate out what is an actual pattern from what is normal human behavior. Am I wired for a stronger flight response and that effected the way my pre-verbal mind formed (from inside and outside influences) so that there's a discernible pattern showing up in adulthood? Am I more prone to anxiety and fear? Can I change that?

I don't think that we're too far off in our views of the matter. I may still be giving more weight to genetics than you are, though.
 

Eilonwy

Vulnerability
Joined
Oct 12, 2009
Messages
7,051
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
relevant between 3:09 to 4:31

I get that. Hopefully, I demonstrate that I get that.*

ETA: Really, I wish everyone here could have a fuller picture of who I was pre-caregiver burnout. Exhaustion has made a difference in how much effort I put into facing certain fears/pain and taking action.

ETA2: *to some degree
 

entropie

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 24, 2008
Messages
16,767
MBTI Type
entp
Enneagram
783
Yeah, I do know what you mean. Like I said, I'm interested in how and how much can be changed. I have made changes throughout my life, but dealing with the emotional part has proven to be somewhat difficult and puzzling. I think we do start out with some very basic physical differences due to genetics, and somehow those are enough to effect perception early on so that the patterns form and persist. But then it's difficult to separate out what is an actual pattern from what is normal human behavior. Am I wired for a stronger flight response and that effected the way my pre-verbal mind formed (from inside and outside influences) so that there's a discernible pattern showing up in adulthood? Am I more prone to anxiety and fear? Can I change that?

I don't think that we're too far off in our views of the matter. I may still be giving more weight to genetics than you are, though.

We should discuss this again, I think its the utmost very basic discussion of them all, which influences all personality analysis happening later. I have to go now tho, but I'll come back.

I think that some feelings especially the negative ones manifest more heavily and look like a wall one can not tear down. But from experience I know, with strong will, even that is possible.
 

Eilonwy

Vulnerability
Joined
Oct 12, 2009
Messages
7,051
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
We should discuss this again, I think its the utmost very basic discussion of them all, which influences all personality analysis happening later. I have to go now tho, but I'll come back.

I think that some feelings especially the negative ones manifest more heavily and look like a wall one can not tear down. But from experience I know, with strong will, even that is possible.

Looking forward to discussing it.
 

statuesquechica

New member
Joined
Jul 8, 2009
Messages
428
MBTI Type
INFj
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
The boundaries you have are all in your head and there only.

MBTI is everything but a good way to understand people. It is a safety net for people overwhelmed by the complexity of life. It is a categorizing tool for people who hate surprise or lack fantasy. And it is a vindication for people not to leave their own world to get to know other people, but just to put them into boxes and file them under 'understood, embering curiosity pacified'.

Boundaries we all set for ourselves and we ourselves only. There are no people who are more sensitive than others, all people are the same sensitive. There are just people who hide behind a mask of sensitiveness, because they havent dealt with coping with getting hurt.

Oh, how I love these quotes from entropie! He kind of reminds me of the canary in the MBTI coal mine...we are all stumbling and fumbling around in the dark trying to make sense of things but he keeps reminding us of the fallacies of this system, really any system has fallacies. I love his honesty and humor in exposing it.:wubbie:

Also, my two major relationships in life have been with an INTP and an ENTP (and I use those labels loosely but I do love NTs)...both extremely intelligent in different ways. And both extremely sensitive, far more sensitive than I would have ever imagined and I am embarrassed I did not recognize it sooner. The video above from [MENTION=15291]Mane[/MENTION] illustrates that perfectly.
 

Eilonwy

Vulnerability
Joined
Oct 12, 2009
Messages
7,051
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
I started to wonder if any of you even know who Sam Kinison was. Great comedian:



ETA: In case confusing: Sam Kinison was mentioned in the Penn Jillette video, along with Howard Stern and Richard Dawkins.
 

EvVieNiamhNyx

New member
Joined
Apr 7, 2014
Messages
24
MBTI Type
INF~
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I feel as if I am just taking a tiny snid-bit of this that I like, but it caught my eye.

"By contrast and backing up everything else I've said. INFJs often falsely test as INFPs, because while the ENTP is the most introverted extrovert the INFJ is the least orderly J. With MBTI these are the only two anomalies like this I'm aware of."

I have been in a mass of confusion because I first typed as INFJ forever ago and forgot about MBTI, I took it again and got INFJ still, but I looked into MBTI in general. I read most of the types discriptions and INFP seemed to fit a lot, almost as much as INFJ and then I saw J's are neat and ordered and I am sort of ordered but not neat. I also saw INFJ poser bashing, and I do not want to a type I am not. So I have been in a search between am I INFJ or INFP? Is this really true INFJ's are the least orderly J?
 

entropie

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 24, 2008
Messages
16,767
MBTI Type
entp
Enneagram
783
I feel as if I am just taking a tiny snid-bit of this that I like, but it caught my eye.

"By contrast and backing up everything else I've said. INFJs often falsely test as INFPs, because while the ENTP is the most introverted extrovert the INFJ is the least orderly J. With MBTI these are the only two anomalies like this I'm aware of."

I have been in a mass of confusion because I first typed as INFJ forever ago and forgot about MBTI, I took it again and got INFJ still, but I looked into MBTI in general. I read most of the types discriptions and INFP seemed to fit a lot, almost as much as INFJ and then I saw J's are neat and ordered and I am sort of ordered but not neat. I also saw INFJ poser bashing, and I do not want to a type I am not. So I have been in a search between am I INFJ or INFP? Is this really true INFJ's are the least orderly J?

You are in a mass of confusion because you dont fit the type system ? Let me rephrase that to make it more clear: you are in a mass of confusion because your face does not exactly look like the faces of the group of people you belong to ?!
 

iloveyou

New member
Joined
Apr 6, 2014
Messages
37
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
9w1
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I really agree with all the [MENTION=6275]the state i am in[/MENTION] says but I think he is a male if I'm not mistaken and I find that I connect to and relate with male INFJs far better than I do with females. Maybe a result of societal gender stereotypes reenforcing the negative qualities of both female INFJs and male ENTPs.

It is also wise to further look at the Enneagram 7 (common for ENTPs) flaws which are avoidance or more specifically anxiety and the desire to escape it via avoidance.

[MENTION=14857]fia[/MENTION] I find it curious that you view ENTPs as judgmental as function wise the ENTP and ENFP would be the very least judgmental of all the MBTI types. I have never met one I felt this way about, I could tell any of the ENPs I know pretty much anything with zero fear of judgment. It has been my experience that INFJs that aren't comfortable with themselves will view us that way due to a tendency to add emotions relating to their perception to statements. A made up example:

ENTP - You're skinny. (nothing more than a statement of their perception, neither good nor bad)

INFJ - What are you saying?

ENTP - That you're skinny.


The INFJ will then take the statement and depending on how they perceive themselves assume anything from the ENTP judging how much they eat to them saying they have an eating disorder.

To actually quote a real life INFJ example like I'm talking about from a few days ago I will quote the actual text conversation:


INFJ - I'm an INFJ

Me - I figured you were an INFJ, interesting to find an INFJ with blank (blank used in place of a more personal detail that isn't germane to this context).

INFJ- Why is an INFJ with blank strange? And what's your type?

Me - Now see what you did there, I said "interesting" and you converted it to "strange".

INFJ - You're right I did.

INFJ - I wonder why I converted "interesting" to "strange"... Maybe I read into your observation and subconsciously attached a negative connotation to the word "interesting".


And in my humble opinion there is the crux of the ENTP/INFJ issues though not an entirely inclusive summary.

I'm not doubting that you felt judged fia, simply saying that feeling judged does not a judgement make.


Hmm..thought that was just something women did. But you're right, I do that too. I'm not sure why, but I feel like it's something I didn't really do when I was younger. I vividly remember being able to remember exactly what people said, exactly how they said it, exactly the way they said it, word for word growing up. But for some reason now when I hear what people say I sometimes subconsciously, idk, "attach things to them" like the person you met said, and I've noticed that sometimes this translates to me slightly changing up what the person said, that is, if whatever I subconsciously "attached" wasn't intended. I actually didn't really realize I did this until I joined this forum. I mean not really. I guess that's because everything on here's written and you can easily scroll back up to check to see what the person actually did say.

But thanks. Something I'll try to work on. I'll keep it in mind.
 

Samvega

Buddhist Misanthrope
Joined
Dec 11, 2007
Messages
1,073
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
7w8
Hmm..thought that was just something women did. But you're right, I do that too. I'm not sure why, but I feel like it's something I didn't really do when I was younger. I vividly remember being able to remember exactly what people said, exactly how they said it, exactly the way they said it, word for word growing up. But for some reason now when I hear what people say I sometimes subconsciously, idk, "attach things to them" like the person you met said, and I've noticed that sometimes this translates to me slightly changing up what the person said, that is, if whatever I subconsciously "attached" wasn't intended. I actually didn't really realize I did this until I joined this forum. I mean not really. I guess that's because everything on here's written and you can easily scroll back up to check to see what the person actually did say.

But thanks. Something I'll try to work on. I'll keep it in mind.

Perception is 90% of reality, nobody is immune to their own perceptions, balances in learning to integrate it with the perceptions of others.

As a side note, that girl stopped talking to me, we were just friends but she started dating a guy that was insecure and catered to him. She didn't say anything about why, just stopped, maybe the fourth time an INFJ woman has done something like this only to later find out why.

Honestly, I've never had an issue with a male INFJ, I just spent 4 hours with one today that I talk to almost daily and he's wonderful. I would clear all ENTPs (male or female) for a relationship with a male INFJ, I would however still enforce a strict keep your distance protocol for any ENTP attempting to get close to a female INFJ, be warned people, be warned! I say leave them for the INXXs and ISTJs!!
 

Ene

Active member
Joined
Aug 16, 2012
Messages
3,574
MBTI Type
iNfj
Enneagram
5w4
Perception is 90% of reality, nobody is immune to their own perceptions, balances in learning to integrate it with the perceptions of others.

As a side note, that girl stopped talking to me, we were just friends but she started dating a guy that was insecure and catered to him. She didn't say anything about why, just stopped, maybe the fourth time an INFJ woman has done something like this only to later find out why.

Honestly, I've never had an issue with a male INFJ, I just spent 4 hours with one today that I talk to almost daily and he's wonderful. I would clear all ENTPs (male or female) for a relationship with a male INFJ, I would however still enforce a strict keep your distance protocol for any ENTP attempting to get close to a female INFJ, be warned people, be warned! I say leave them for the INXXs and ISTJs!!

Gender shouldn't make a difference in type, should it?

But maybe expectation of gender behavior is what makes the difference seem so strong.
 
S

Society

Guest
Gender shouldn't make a difference in type, should it?
it can in theory - to the extent that a type can shape how you mentally digest social expectations and role models, and those are influenced by gender (ESFJ males vs. ESFJ females might be the most obvious examples of that).


that's being said, i think in this case the difference might not be between INFJ males and INFJ female personalities in themselves as much as it is about how gender dynamics interact with MBTI dynamics - the initial dynamic will probably be different, but i don't know if in the long term female ENTPs would experience male INFJs that differently from how male ENTPs experience female INFJs, and the problematic aspects of the type dynamic tend to arise in the long term anyway.
 

Ene

Active member
Joined
Aug 16, 2012
Messages
3,574
MBTI Type
iNfj
Enneagram
5w4
[MENTION=15291]Mane[/MENTION]
it can in theory - to the extent that a type can shape how you mentally digest social expectations and role models, and those are influenced by gender (ESFJ males vs. ESFJ females might be the most obvious examples of that).


That's really sad in a way. I just mean that a person may never discover his or her true self or see others for their true selves because of this.

that's being said, i think in this case the difference might not be between INFJ males and INFJ female personalities in themselves as much as it is about how gender dynamics interact with MBTI dynamics - the initial dynamic will probably be different, but i don't know if in the long term female ENTPs would experience male INFJs that differently from how male ENTPs experience female INFJs, and the problematic aspects of the type dynamic tend to arise in the long term anyway.

I think you're right about it being in the long haul where problems tend to arise and also I suppose that the more time you spend with a person, the more you see and experience each other's short comings. But still, I think it's too bad that gender expectations color our perceptions so much.

In real life, I know two male ENTPs, one of them is my trainer. I often think that if we had met under different circumstances that we would have been an awesome team, or at least very interesting one. But then again, it might have been a disaster. Who can say?
 

1487610420

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 13, 2009
Messages
6,431
[MENTION=15291]Mane[/MENTION]


That's really sad in a way. I just mean that a person may never discover his or her true self or see others for their true selves because of this.



I think you're right about it being in the long haul where problems tend to arise and also I suppose that the more time you spend with a person, the more you see and experience each other's short comings. But still, I think it's too bad that gender expectations color our perceptions so much.

In real life, I know two male ENTPs, one of them is my trainer. I often think that if we had met under different circumstances that we would have been an awesome team, or at least very interesting one. But then again, it might have been a disaster. Who can say?

Come closer my child
 

Samvega

Buddhist Misanthrope
Joined
Dec 11, 2007
Messages
1,073
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
7w8
it can in theory - to the extent that a type can shape how you mentally digest social expectations and role models, and those are influenced by gender (ESFJ males vs. ESFJ females might be the most obvious examples of that).


that's being said, i think in this case the difference might not be between INFJ males and INFJ female personalities in themselves as much as it is about how gender dynamics interact with MBTI dynamics - the initial dynamic will probably be different, but i don't know if in the long term female ENTPs would experience male INFJs that differently from how male ENTPs experience female INFJs, and the problematic aspects of the type dynamic tend to arise in the long term anyway.

I don't disagree but would add that in a perfect world there may be less of a difference, in some family dynamics the difference may be less noticeable (e.g. my daughter is a 9 but being raised by a 7w8 is more assertive than you would expect from a 9). My perception and experience has been that for female INFJs societal expectations reenforces and reaffirms their worst qualities where as for males it challenges those same qualities and forces them to adjust and grow. For whatever reason my experience with INFPs while I would think would be the same proves opposite as the INFP females I know seem to do better and the males seem to "adjust" with often times more passive aggressive behaviors or having a more extroverted sensor persona. Clearly these aren't "rules" but my observations.

With INFJs females I've experienced the same exact issues over, and over, and over with them flat out denying it, as if they reinvent reality. I actually was in the INFJ facebook group and commented on some observations along these lines. Interestingly enough one girl was hugely offended and defended INFJs with vigor swearing an INFJ could never. The funny thing was she didn't know I was using a different facebook name and I was the guy she'd been cheating on her boyfriend with (I didn't know, she was lying to both) years earlier. When I responded to tell her who I was (not what had happened out of respect for her privacy) she actually talked to one of the INFJ admins in the group and had me kicked out.

Think about the INFJ poster children, Jesus, Sam Harris, Gandhi, MLK, all men.

Mind you, this isn't directed towards any single person but my experience with INFJs. If you notice, there are a couple INFJs that are very well regarded on TypeC and post often yet have stayed clear of this thread (or any thread where I'm noting these observations for that matter) completely, want to take a guess at why?
 
S

Society

Guest
I don't disagree but would add that in a perfect world there may be less of a difference, in some family dynamics the difference may be less noticeable (e.g. my daughter is a 9 but being raised by a 7w8 is more assertive than you would expect from a 9). My perception and experience has been that for female INFJs societal expectations reenforces and reaffirms their worst qualities where as for males it challenges those same qualities and forces them to adjust and grow. For whatever reason my experience with INFPs while I would think would be the same proves opposite as the INFP females I know seem to do better and the males seem to "adjust" with often times more passive aggressive behaviors or having a more extroverted sensor persona. Clearly these aren't "rules" but my observations.

With INFJs females I've experienced the same exact issues over, and over, and over with them flat out denying it, as if they reinvent reality.


maybe, but ask yourself this:
while you don't experience the same brute wall of willful ignorance, do the more intimate relationships in his life do? his past and current partners? his family?

i think for both genders of the type, there is a connection between the degree of intimacy and the degree of betrayal they seem to experience:
the more personal and intimate your knowledge about them is, the more threatening it is to their sense of self when your view of who they are conflicts with their own.
contrasting that is respect: the more mutual respect you have for each other, the more they can trust you to be their ally on their side, the harder it will be for them to invent and super impose on you a narrative of malicious intent.

my theory is that it isn't who he is which marks most of the difference, its who you are for him: a buddy.
male bonds are often built more on respect and comradery then on intimacy and affection, increasing the fortitude on one hand and decreasing the vulnerability in the other.

 
S

Society

Guest
In real life, I know two male ENTPs, one of them is my trainer. I often think that if we had met under different circumstances that we would have been an awesome team, or at least very interesting one. But then again, it might have been a disaster. Who can say?

you aren't an awesome team? what ended up happening with that?
 
Top