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  1. #291
    Buddhist Misanthrope Samvega's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    I can't imagine having a successful long term relationship with an ENTP myself. I think I could have an amazing friendship with one, but I'm too introverted and have too strong a need for security and predictability to have an E_ _ P partner. The only way I could see it working is if we had money out the rear and didn't have kids. That might be enough to balance things out. But I am by no means an INFJ poster child or anything. I do, however, do just fine with my INTP. He does meet and exceed my moral (or whatever) standards and I generally straighten up when he calls me on my crap because I can't stand to have him be unhappy with me. All he has to do is raise his eyebrow at me in a certain way.

    It kinda bothers me all this talk about how INFJs can't have good long term relationships and nobody can meet their standards, etc. I've been with my husband for twenty years and, yes, he has his faults, but on the important stuff I think he darn near walks on water. My family and friends think so, too, so I'm not completely deluding myself.
    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    Great post, cafe, and I agree. The easy-going ENTPs are great fun and wonderful to share ideas with, but I definitely prefer the IN types. There is a ton of projection and emotional baggage going on against INFJs from certain members who are not objective in the least about the topic, but it is wonderful news that people who are prejudiced against INFJs don't want to be in relationships with them because there is no worse scenario than for a person to try to connect with someone who already hates them because of personal prejudice.

    I deeply value my connection to my INTP for many of the same reasons. The INTP-INFJ pairing has worked superbly for a number of people, so I can say it can be wonderful. I think the second choice for me would be another INFJ because I really dig "Ti" and introverted iNtuitives.

    Edit: And as far as the INFJs on this site, I know many of the women well in this context and other contexts, and I'll say that if I ever switched teams, any one of them would be an awesome partner. I can think of half a dozen who are the kindest, most honest, gentlest, most reasonable, and deep people of character I have ever known. There are people of all the types I think highly of, but when my friends whom I respect for reasons that have demonstrated as fact for nearly a decade now come under attack by some strangers online, it makes me disgusted and quite thankful for the ignore feature. The reason I'm indirect is because there is more than one and they don't show up in my newsfeed, thankfully.
    In my experience there are two types of INFJs, those willing to date fellow INFJs and those who are grossed out by it and say it would feel like incest. I can't really speak to the matter as I'm not an introvert and wouldn't even entertain the idea of dating a fellow extrovert, I have no desire to date somebody that can't balance out the aspects of me that I need to work on. INFJs are the most extroverted of the introverted intuitives so in every I/I pairing I've seen they're the one who has to step up to the plate and bring the fun and adventure. We're talking about relationships, super personal thing so I guess we all have to decide what we want and what works.

  2. #292
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samvega View Post
    In my experience there are two types of INFJs, those willing to date fellow INFJs and those who are grossed out by it and say it would feel like incest. I can't really speak to the matter as I'm not an introvert and wouldn't even entertain the idea of dating a fellow extrovert, I have no desire to date somebody that can't balance out the aspects of me that I need to work on. INFJs are the most extroverted of the introverted intuitives so in every I/I pairing I've seen they're the one who has to step up to the plate and bring the fun and adventure. We're talking about relationships, super personal thing so I guess we all have to decide what we want and what works.
    If I wasn't straight, I'd consider dating a female INFJ. I'd be more cautious about dating a male INFJ. Our culture is not kind to male Fs and sometimes it messes with their heads in such a way that they aren't good relationship material. Hopefully it won't always be that way.

    You are right that I do end up doing the extroverted stuff for my family. I was just talking to my husband about it the other day. Since social/household stuff is my department, I often do the talking when we're out shopping or otherwise taking care of business. Sometimes it's a pain because men especially act like I'm being overbearing and try to ignore me and talk to my husband. It's funny but annoying to be treated like I'm henpecking him when I'm essentially working for him and doing my job so he doesn't have to talk to people.

    Most of the time, I don't mind. It's for short bursts and I usually get to choose when it happens. It's easier than living with an extrovert all the time whom I'm more or less obligated to interact with on demand. But I'm very introverted and we have four kids. None of them appear to be extroverted, but that's still a lot of people to have to interact with on demand.

    I've known someone I'm pretty sure is an INFJ who is very happily married to someone I think is an ENFP, so I know that INFJs can do very well with extroverts under the right circumstances. I just don't think I'm one of them.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  3. #293
    Buddhist Misanthrope Samvega's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    You are right that I do end up doing the extroverted stuff for my family. I was just talking to my husband about it the other day. Since social/household stuff is my department, I often do the talking when we're out shopping or otherwise taking care of business. Sometimes it's a pain because men especially act like I'm being overbearing and try to ignore me and talk to my husband. It's funny but annoying to be treated like I'm henpecking him when I'm essentially working for him and doing my job so he doesn't have to talk to people.

    Most of the time, I don't mind. It's for short bursts and I usually get to choose when it happens. It's easier than living with an extrovert all the time whom I'm more or less obligated to interact with on demand. But I'm very introverted and we have four kids. None of them appear to be extroverted, but that's still a lot of people to have to interact with on demand.
    One day I'm driving down the mountain at dusk with myself, an INFJ and 2 of our kids and in the distance I see this huge white sheet illuminated by floodlights. I knew exactly what was going on as I watched her looking out the window wondering what they were doing. When we got to the pullout where the people were setup I pulled in, parked the car and got out as I said "come on guys". I walked up to the people and engaged in a conversation with them, they were with the university and collecting bugs. She was able to just relax and enjoy the experience without having to engage with the people, ask questions or push her comforts. When we left, she expressed how many experiences she must have missed in the two years she was with a fellow introvert. We proceeded to talk about how much I must miss being an extrovert and compare notes on what those things may be.

    As you mention above, "I'm very introverted" yet you're the one that has to do the social interacting because with an INTP (INxPs are the two most introverted types) you're going to have to be the social lubricant. Many of the INFJs I have known grow very tired of this though I have known some very social INFJs who don't seem to mind as much. Like I said, you're relationship, your life, you need to do what fits your needs the best and it sounds like that's what you've done. You may be the type of INFJ capable of pulling over, walking up to strangers in a parking lot and engaging however for those who find things like that out of their comfort zone, an ENTP provides a nice balance and allows them to enjoy the experience instead of dealing with the anxiety of extroverting.

    Remember, the ENTP is more "introverted" than the INFJ and I would debate requires far more alone time. If I don't get 4-5 hours of alone time a day I get fairly cranky, I'm guessing a few ENTPs may chime in and say the same thing.

  4. #294
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Based on the type definitions, INFJs would have much more stick-to-it-ness than the EN-Ps for relationships. ISFJs would probably be the most loyal and work the hardest, but INFJs could easily come in a close second because both types feel particularly conscientious about everything to which they are connected. INTJs are also known for working hard on relationships. I'd venture to say that the I--Js would work very hard on their most intimate relationships, even in situations where it isn't the most wise course of action. Extroverts and Perceivers both have more flexibility changing their circumstances.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
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  5. #295
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samvega View Post
    One day I'm driving down the mountain at dusk with myself, an INFJ and 2 of our kids and in the distance I see this huge white sheet illuminated by floodlights. I knew exactly what was going on as I watched her looking out the window wondering what they were doing. When we got to the pullout where the people were setup I pulled in, parked the car and got out as I said "come on guys". I walked up to the people and engaged in a conversation with them, they were with the university and collecting bugs. She was able to just relax and enjoy the experience without having to engage with the people, ask questions or push her comforts. When we left, she expressed how many experiences she must have missed in the two years she was with a fellow introvert. We proceeded to talk about how much I must miss being an extrovert and compare notes on what those things may be.

    As you mention above, "I'm very introverted" yet you're the one that has to do the social interacting because with an INTP (INxPs are the two most introverted types) you're going to have to be the social lubricant. Many of the INFJs I have known grow very tired of this though I have known some very social INFJs who don't seem to mind as much. Like I said, you're relationship, your life, you need to do what fits your needs the best and it sounds like that's what you've done. You may be the type of INFJ capable of pulling over, walking up to strangers in a parking lot and engaging however for those who find things like that out of their comfort zone, an ENTP provides a nice balance and allows them to enjoy the experience instead of dealing with the anxiety of extroverting.

    Remember, the ENTP is more "introverted" than the INFJ and I would debate requires far more alone time. If I don't get 4-5 hours of alone time a day I get fairly cranky, I'm guessing a few ENTPs may chime in and say the same thing.
    If it was dusk and we had the kids with us, I'd be pissed if we stopped because I'd be ready to go home. If I was really curious, I'd check the local news when I got home.

    For us, it's a division of labor thing. We each have our departments and talking to people is mostly my department. I don't work outside the home and our youngest kid is fourteen, so I don't think it's too much to ask, especially since I know he appreciates it. Even when the kids were little and I was exhausted all of the time I don't remember minding doing the talking. I minded plenty of other stuff, admittedly, some of which was almost certainly due to our both being introverts, but talking to people wasn't particularly burdensome, especially after I decided to just chatter at people mindlessly. That's one of the best turn-on-a-dime decisions I've ever made and I've made a few. But yeah, if it's not rubbing me the wrong way after twenty years, it's probably not going to start soon. And we're not too far away from being empty nesters, so I'd imagine I'll be talking to anybody who will listen to me soon enough.

    I bet you do more of the interaction with the kids, which sounds like a godsend. That I would have given an eyetooth for, back in the day.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  6. #296
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    I love ENTPs.. in theory. In reality I don't think I'd feel safe enough in a relationship with one to relax and enjoy our life. Sure, maybe I wouldn't get to see all the bug catching scientists on the way home. But I more highly value the intimacy and trust I have with my INTP spouse than I do any amount of cool external experiences.

    For demographic purposes I'm 37 (almost) and we've been together 20 years (almost).

    Edit: I am pretty sure I'm not an INFJ but I answered anyway since some of the earlier posts in the thread also spoke to the INFP/INTP relationship, and since I do have some things in common with some INFJs (including an acceptance of and willingness to engage in doorslamming if necessary, and a mystical sort of approach to spirituality that is crossed with a sense of skepticism and agnosticism).

  7. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    Dunno if pointing fingers onto mbti types will make all of you happy in the long run. Saying: 'I dislike Jews' or 'I dislike INFJs' is equally nonsense. Tho I really hate intps, there are always a few people who continue to prove me wrong about my biases. I dunno but I have a strong hunch about that.
    to not derail this one, you've inspired a new thread

  8. #298
    Buddhist Misanthrope Samvega's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    Based on the type definitions, INFJs would have much more stick-to-it-ness than the EN-Ps for relationships. ISFJs would probably be the most loyal and work the hardest, but INFJs could easily come in a close second because both types feel particularly conscientious about everything to which they are connected. INTJs are also known for working hard on relationships. I'd venture to say that the I--Js would work very hard on their most intimate relationships, even in situations where it isn't the most wise course of action. Extroverts and Perceivers both have more flexibility changing their circumstances.
    Fully agree, it's one of the main causes for the damage and hurt I have seen them cause others and one of my biggest fears in dating them. I have seen INFJs stay in relationships they weren't happy or even miserable in for 2, 3, 5 years which is unhealthy for everybody. I'm not actually certain what the motive is for not leaving, dragging things out and causing damage to the other person with knowing it's over yet not leaving yet I know this is a common issue. Maybe it's a struggle to speak up for their own needs, a fear of disappointing others, I'm not sure but it's there and a huge source of damage they cause yet seem oblivious to.

    Otherwise, dominant intuitives in general are pretty dedicated to relationships, in fact, so are ISTJs, ISFJs, ESFJs and most of the other types. i would actually give the loyalty award to the IxTJs without even needing to give it much additional thought.

    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    If it was dusk and we had the kids with us, I'd be pissed if we stopped because I'd be ready to go home. If I was really curious, I'd check the local news when I got home.

    For us, it's a division of labor thing. We each have our departments and talking to people is mostly my department. I don't work outside the home and our youngest kid is fourteen, so I don't think it's too much to ask, especially since I know he appreciates it. Even when the kids were little and I was exhausted all of the time I don't remember minding doing the talking. I minded plenty of other stuff, admittedly, some of which was almost certainly due to our both being introverts, but talking to people wasn't particularly burdensome, especially after I decided to just chatter at people mindlessly. That's one of the best turn-on-a-dime decisions I've ever made and I've made a few. But yeah, if it's not rubbing me the wrong way after twenty years, it's probably not going to start soon. And we're not too far away from being empty nesters, so I'd imagine I'll be talking to anybody who will listen to me soon enough.

    I bet you do more of the interaction with the kids, which sounds like a godsend. That I would have given an eyetooth for, back in the day.
    I get it, I have a really amazing INTP friend that's with an INFJ, they seem to be a good match for each other in so many ways, they're really good together. I however have no comprehension what their dynamic is like when they're with strangers as I'm on the inside.

    Between myself and the INFJ I was with we have 6 kids, really pretty easy as I am not too far from a child myself so I could take a whole posse of kids and keep them entertained however, it can get overwhelming to say that least but on the parenting front when we had all of the kids in tow things were typically really balanced and enjoyable. I actually think having a lack of space bothered me far more than it bothered her.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    I love ENTPs.. in theory. In reality I don't think I'd feel safe enough in a relationship with one to relax and enjoy our life. Sure, maybe I wouldn't get to see all the bug catching scientists on the way home. But I more highly value the intimacy and trust I have with my INTP spouse than I do any amount of cool external experiences.

    For demographic purposes I'm 37 (almost) and we've been together 20 years (almost).

    Edit: I am pretty sure I'm not an INFJ but I answered anyway since some of the earlier posts in the thread also spoke to the INFP/INTP relationship, and since I do have some things in common with some INFJs (including an acceptance of and willingness to engage in doorslamming if necessary, and a mystical sort of approach to spirituality that is crossed with a sense of skepticism and agnosticism).
    I am curious if you've ever met an ENTP ivy? Without going into details on the intimacy front for example, I think you would be very shocked if you knew what I was all about. I'm not sure what you mean by not feeling "safe" but I am one of the most intensely boundary oriented, loyal, passionate people you would ever meet. I can't speak to the INTP, I like them a lot but I've never dated one, I just can't picture them being able to offer any more safety than an ENTP.


    Have you INFJs dating other introverts noticed my poll about dating others with that same preference? Kinda makes my point that not many people really understand how those two functions work.

  9. #299
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    I have met several ENTPs. I find myself drawn to them, for friends and fun, but the ones I've known have been too scattershot/unpredictable for me to feel like dating them would be a viable option. Based on the INTPs and ENTPs I've known personally, the INTPs (in particular the one I married) are far more grounded, methodical, and upfront. There are no games, no histrionics, no erratic or hurtful behavior. If words come out of his mouth, he means them because he has thought about them at length. The same has not been true of the ENTPs I've known personally- they process by putting it all out there and THEN sorting it out, rather than sorting it out before presenting it to me. So some hurtful things get said and then taken back as "I didn't really mean that." Individually, those instances might not be extremely hurtful, but over years and years they would become little erosions in my trust of that person. I do know myself well enough to know that.

  10. #300
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    If I wasn't straight, I'd consider dating a female INFJ. I'd be more cautious about dating a male INFJ. Our culture is not kind to male Fs and sometimes it messes with their heads in such a way that they aren't good relationship material. Hopefully it won't always be that way.
    Wow. You guys can be cold...
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

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