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  1. #281
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samvega View Post
    Maybe the issue your describing is the reason INFJs so often date Enneagram 9s, fellow introverts and their friends, to avoid watching their ideals come crashing down.

    What does dating "e9s, fellow introverts and their friends" have to do with being able to "avoid watching their ideals come crashing down"?

    The only difference I can see it making (choosing those types to be around) is reducing the (seemingly) senseless reactivity and emotional chaos in the external environment- so it would help avoid 'ideals crashing down' at a faster pace than they can possibly be worked on. Merging ideals with the reality of another person is always work though- I don't think choosing someone calm or familiar makes that task somehow 'avoidable'.
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

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  2. #282
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    I think this thread title is morally insulting: so when hands 'go down' this relationship is best or what ? No really folks, my moral compass expected more from you ...
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  3. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    I think this thread title is morally insulting: so when hands 'go down' this relationship is best or what ? No really folks, my moral compass expected more from you ...
    it's a sales pitch, geared more towards the INFJs then the ENTPs (because really, why would he care if other ENTPs disagree with him? more INFJs for him to pick from). i have no trouble with that, he isn't hiding that or anything of the sort, though the large number of 1 time INFJ posters thanking him for this thread is a bit suspicious (more so because if it was just random people googling INFJ/ENTP dynamic you'd expect some of these to be ENTPs), i really don't see anything wrong with his marketing techniques.

    the reality is however, it takes two to tango, and for this to work, we - other ENTPs - need to be part of the consumer audience as well. now honestly, if this was a genuinely good product, i'd have no issue with it - if there was genuinely a type of people that i would know i am more likely to be happy with and make them happy and have a great life together - that would be fantastic.

    however, my experience with this product has so far being extremely negative, and so has the experience of others i've gotten to know here, and the reasons for those experiences have being highly reinforced and justified by so many INFJs here... with those issues not being addressed, i can't help but think he is selling tickets to a train wrack.

  4. #284
    Senior Member Winds of Thor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    it's a sales pitch, geared more towards the INFJs then the ENTPs (because really, why would he care if other ENTPs disagree with him? more INFJs for him to pick from). i have no trouble with that, he isn't hiding that or anything of the sort, though the large number of 1 time INFJ posters thanking him for this thread is a bit suspicious (more so because if it was just random people googling INFJ/ENTP dynamic you'd expect some of these to be ENTPs), i really don't see anything wrong with his marketing techniques.

    the reality is however, we - other ENTPs - are part of the consumer audience as well. now honestly, if this was a genuinely good product, i'd have no issue with it - if there was genuinely a type of people that i would know i am more likely to be happy with and make them happy and have a great life together - that would be fantastic.

    however, my experience with this product has so far being extremely negative, and so has the experience of others i've gotten to know here, and the reasons for those experiences have being highly reinforced and justified by so many INFJs here... with those issues not being addressed, i can't help but think he is selling tickets to a train wrack.
    This is the issue. If issues were addressed, the INFJ may thereby put forth enough relationship equity that the pairing might have a chance on becoming healthy.

    Or they can do nothing, rendering the relationship to merely a cartoon.
    "..And the eight and final rule: If this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight."
    'Men are meant to be with women. The rest is perversion and mental illness.'

  5. #285
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    I can't imagine having a successful long term relationship with an ENTP myself. I think I could have an amazing friendship with one, but I'm too introverted and have too strong a need for security and predictability to have an E_ _ P partner. The only way I could see it working is if we had money out the rear and didn't have kids. That might be enough to balance things out. But I am by no means an INFJ poster child or anything. I do, however, do just fine with my INTP. He does meet and exceed my moral (or whatever) standards and I generally straighten up when he calls me on my crap because I can't stand to have him be unhappy with me. All he has to do is raise his eyebrow at me in a certain way.

    It kinda bothers me all this talk about how INFJs can't have good long term relationships and nobody can meet their standards, etc. I've been with my husband for twenty years and, yes, he has his faults, but on the important stuff I think he darn near walks on water. My family and friends think so, too, so I'm not completely deluding myself.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  6. #286
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    I can't imagine having a successful long term relationship with an ENTP myself. I think I could have an amazing friendship with one, but I'm too introverted and have too strong a need for security and predictability to have an E_ _ P partner. The only way I could see it working is if we had money out the rear and didn't have kids. That might be enough to balance things out. But I am by no means an INFJ poster child or anything. I do, however, do just fine with my INTP. He does meet and exceed my moral (or whatever) standards and I generally straighten up when he calls me on my crap because I can't stand to have him be unhappy with me. All he has to do is raise his eyebrow at me in a certain way.

    It kinda bothers me all this talk about how INFJs can't have good long term relationships and nobody can meet their standards, etc. I've been with my husband for twenty years and, yes, he has his faults, but on the important stuff I think he darn near walks on water. My family and friends think so, too, so I'm not completely deluding myself.
    Great post, cafe, and I agree. The easy-going ENTPs are great fun and wonderful to share ideas with, but I definitely prefer the IN types. There is a ton of projection and emotional baggage going on against INFJs from certain members who are not objective in the least about the topic, but it is wonderful news that people who are prejudiced against INFJs don't want to be in relationships with them because there is no worse scenario than for a person to try to connect with someone who already hates them because of personal prejudice.

    I deeply value my connection to my INTP for many of the same reasons. The INTP-INFJ pairing has worked superbly for a number of people, so I can say it can be wonderful. I think the second choice for me would be another INFJ because I really dig "Ti" and introverted iNtuitives.

    Edit: And as far as the INFJs on this site, I know many of the women well in this context and other contexts, and I'll say that if I ever switched teams, any one of them would be an awesome partner. I can think of half a dozen who are the kindest, most honest, gentlest, most reasonable, and deep people of character I have ever known. There are people of all the types I think highly of, but when my friends whom I respect for reasons that have demonstrated as fact for nearly a decade now come under attack by some strangers online, it makes me disgusted and quite thankful for the ignore feature. The reason I'm indirect is because there is more than one and they don't show up in my newsfeed, thankfully.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  7. #287
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Dunno if pointing fingers onto mbti types will make all of you happy in the long run. Saying: 'I dislike Jews' or 'I dislike INFJs' is equally nonsense. Tho I really hate intps, there are always a few people who continue to prove me wrong about my biases. I dunno but I have a strong hunch about that.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  8. #288
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    Great post, cafe, and I agree. The easy-going ENTPs are great fun and wonderful to share ideas with, but I definitely prefer the IN types. There is a ton of projection and emotional baggage going on against INFJs from certain members who are not objective in the least about the topic, but it is wonderful news that people who are prejudiced against INFJs don't want to be in relationships with them because there is no worse scenario than for a person to try to connect with someone who already hates them because of personal prejudice.

    I deeply value my connection to my INTP for many of the same reasons. The INTP-INFJ pairing has worked superbly for a number of people, so I can say it can be wonderful. I think the second choice for me would be another INFJ because I really dig "Ti" and introverted iNtuitives.

    Edit: And as far as the INFJs on this site, I know many of the women well in this context and other contexts, and I'll say that if I ever switched teams, any one of them would be an awesome partner. I can think of half a dozen who are the kindest, most honest, gentlest, most reasonable, and deep people of character I have ever known. There are people of all the types I think highly of, but when my friends whom I respect for reasons that have demonstrated as fact for nearly a decade now come under attack by some strangers online, it makes me disgusted and quite thankful for the ignore feature. The reason I'm indirect is because there is more than one and they don't show up in my newsfeed, thankfully.
    Yep. I feel the same way about several of the INFJs on this site. I'd give them better odds on building and maintaining a happy LTR than I would folks that attack them based on type and their own personal baggage. IMO, it'd be way more constructive to get help working through the baggage than ragging on people who in some ways resemble someone that did bad things to you.

    I'm not saying I don't struggle with it, too. I get itchy and prickly around church people, but I try not to lash out until one of them actually does something bad to me, even though my guard is up.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  9. #289
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
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    Default ENTP/INFJ interaction, portrayed by dog/cat

    This presents an excellent thread summary:

    To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
    ~ Elbert Hubbard

    Music provides one of the clearest examples of a much deeper relation between mathematics and human experience.

  10. #290
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    Dunno if pointing fingers onto mbti types will make all of you happy in the long run. Saying: 'I dislike Jews' or 'I dislike INFJs' is equally nonsense. Tho I really hate intps, there are always a few people who continue to prove me wrong about my biases. I dunno but I have a strong hunch about that.
    ^This is the voice of reason, and I should clarify that when talking about MBTI, it's kinda chit-chat to me because I don't take it hard-core. Typism is not a reasoned approach to life.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

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