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  1. #191
    Member eternal recurrence's Avatar
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    yaaa but guys (INFJ's) can i throw something out there in our game of generalizations.

    Its just an generalizing argument, Im not really interested in the replies: "ya but im not like that ... etc"

    The thing with ENTP's is: as great as they are they also have other 'well known' tendencies (e.g. the vagabond-ness mentioned above, prolonged immaturity, emotional distance, saying things we interpret as insulting, wandering eyes, unreliability).

    Even in concert with all the other FANTASTIC (and i mean that, that would be my one word to describe ENTPs) traits, is it worth it?

    it could be, "it always depends on the individual" but keeping in line with generalities, I would say that these traits are really not conducive to an INFJ's happiness in a relationship.

    Don't get so caught up in the discussions and eyes - what about everyday life when a problem occurs?

  2. #192
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eternal recurrence View Post
    yaaa but guys (INFJ's) can i throw something out there in our game of generalizations.

    Its just an generalizing argument, Im not really interested in the replies: "ya but im not like that ... etc"

    The thing with ENTP's is: as great as they are they also have other 'well known' tendencies (e.g. the vagabond-ness mentioned above, prolonged immaturity, emotional distance, saying things we interpret as insulting, wandering eyes, unreliability).

    Even in concert with all the other FANTASTIC (and i mean that, that would be my one word to describe ENTPs) traits, is it worth it?

    it could be, "it always depends on the individual" but keeping in line with generalities, I would say that these traits are really not conducive to an INFJ's happiness in a relationship.

    Don't get so caught up in the discussions and eyes - what about everyday life when a problem occurs?
    are infjs prone to any of these things? my entp friend and i have very similar attitudes towards relationships. overall, he is more mature in his views- i frequently ask him questions about how to deal with the tendencies you mentioned in a positive and healthy way.

    with entp i imagine the lack of Fi is noticeable, and it's a form that infjs with Fe often rely on to truly trust another person.

  3. #193
    lurking.... Wyst's Avatar
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    I like ENTPs a lot. Unfortunately, they have very short attention spans and have a lot of friends that easily distract them.

    I'm pretty close to a few select people. When one of them turns out to be a socially distracted and friends around with anyone that has a brain, it makes me wonder if I'm unimportant and just one of the throng.

  4. #194
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyst View Post
    I like ENTPs a lot. Unfortunately, they have very short attention spans and have a lot of friends that easily distract them.

    I'm pretty close to a few select people. When one of them turns out to be a socially distracted and friends around with anyone that has a brain, it makes me wonder if I'm unimportant and just one of the throng.
    I hear this a lot about ENTP's. But, I think it is a misunderstanding. I spend 90% of my time alone. I am close to maybe 1-3 people at any one time.

    I don't have a short attention span for my friends. I just have different levels of friends. To get into the inner circle takes a special connection. I can't even put my finger on it except in my case they're always more introverted and thoughtful. I don't tend to get on well with other extraverts as everything seems flatter and uninteresting. Extraverts often lack depth. Perhaps because they have a self-effacing orientation to the world.

    Why do you assume you're unimportant?
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  5. #195
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eternal recurrence View Post
    The thing with ENTP's is: as great as they are they also have other 'well known' tendencies (e.g. the vagabond-ness mentioned above, prolonged immaturity, emotional distance, saying things we interpret as insulting, wandering eyes, unreliability).
    One thing I have been told is that I'm full of seeming contradictions.

    I can be very silly and immature when the mood strikes me, but, I can be more mature than those around me, if I see that the situation is spiralling more and more towards unproductive chaos, and no one is taking up the reigns to attempt to set it right. When others are panicking, I'm more likely to be calm. If everyone is calm, for a prolonged period of time, my boredom will drive me to shake things up.

    I may not always answer to every single person's want/need for maturity in a given scenario (impossible to meet everyone's need, so I don't really try), but, I'm not blind to my ways, and when I'm acting out, I know full well what I'm doing, and why. It's pretty easy to stop it, you just have to request that you need "serious" from me - and I wouldn't ever not give it, if a person is genuinely asking that that is what they need at the moment.

    As for the "interpreting as insults", I am very vocal about my observations. If I find a quirk in an observation, I'm likely to say it out loud. And, I'm often sarcastic in my delivery. It's to add flavour to the observation. Others may place a value judgement on it, when there was none, as it doesn't automatically mean that that is my position, or that I'm opposed to it. I'm just observing out loud - not necessarily making a judgement on the thing.

    My curiosity may make me take interest in other people and things with seeming vigor (wandering eye), but, I'm not unreliable. I'm unpredictable, perhaps, but, I am not unaccountable. I'm actually much more consistent than my F-friends in certain matters where their support or opposition to the thing is due to their own personal value/outlook. I.e., they will support a person for whom they feel affinity towards, and bash another, or, fail to stand up for another, whom they do not like. I'm more likely to equally support or oppose a person given that the situation warrents it, not my personal value attached to that person.

    As for the emotional distance, it is not on purpose. I am grateful to those that can reach me, that part of me, and help me navigate it, understand it. Emotional distance would mean I know my emotions and am keeping it from you; that's hardly ever the case, at an emotional level. It's more like, I'm not even aware of it myself - and in those moments, I like when someone walks me through it. Calls me out on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    with entp i imagine the lack of Fi is noticeable, and it's a form that infjs with Fe often rely on to truly trust another person.
    This. With an INTJ, he felt that I was not serious or sincere because I wouldn't ever divulge me, my personal feelings, but, appeared to be very warm on the surface. I have discussed this elsewhere, but, very often, I look at emotional things from a 3rd-person perspective rather than a 1st-person perspective......which makes it seem like I'm distant. And, just like an INFJ trusts Fe more, so do I. If someone nitpicks at me to divulge "what do you want? You feel?" (Fi-angle), I find it quite frustrating and step away more and more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wyst View Post
    I like ENTPs a lot. Unfortunately, they have very short attention spans and have a lot of friends that easily distract them.

    I'm pretty close to a few select people. When one of them turns out to be a socially distracted and friends around with anyone that has a brain, it makes me wonder if I'm unimportant and just one of the throng.
    I'd echo what Synarch said. I really like my alone time, and will give up social interaction to be alone. Not necessarily because I don't want to spend time with them, as I wouldn't commit to another social event in their place. I just want to be alone. Also, I am very protective of my inner circle and only a handful ever reach that. And, they earn my undivided attention and loyalty. Everyone else is situational.

    And, I was discussing this with someone else on the forum, but, I think this ENTP attention then lack of attention hits those that I communicate with hard, is very stark in its absence, because when I'm focused on something/someone, I'm intensely focused on them. The other often will feel that, for that moment, they have my intense, undivided attention. And, they do. As such, when I move on to the next, the other feels a sleight because it seemed to them that I was *so* interested in them, and, now, it's complete absence (are they not important anymore? Interesting anymore?). No one can stay intensely focused on one thing forever, and one shouldn't expect that out of an ENTP as well. If the person is someone I respect, I value, I come back, always. If you're important to me, I'll come back.

    And, another thing to note is that, this "intense focus" is not something special that I'm giving to that certain person, this is how I approach all things that have held my interest. So, it's a false impression that somehow it was such an unique and profound connection, which is most of the times, not the case. It's just my default mode of absorbing things. I zone in on something, intensely, and, then the next and the next. And, so on. The unique and profound connections, its evidence, are not found in the intensity, but, in the gaps in between. In the hesitant calm (sometimes awkward doubt) with which I subsequently handle the person/thing.

  6. #196
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    i'm an infj. i think what you've said is absolutely brilliant.

  7. #197
    Junior Member nijasumi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samvega View Post

    The issue with the difficulty in starting an ENTP/INFJ relationship isn't limited to one thing. First off, neither is used to being understood so there's this never ending clarification and "know what I'm saying", "if that makes sense" issue. Both are in dismay somebody else understands with such ease. However because we take different paths to the same place we'll ask things like "why'd you do that" just to understand, when explained the other person totally gets it but because we're so used to the same thing happening with a different outcome it preys on our frustration or issues of never feeling understood. Secondly the INFJ is hard to get out of their shell and the ENTP is quick to run back to theirs. The INFJ has this feeling initially that they'll never get the space they want because they see the ENTP extroverting and the ENTP swears you're not interested. The INFJ will have this constant push/pull I want it no I don't issue and have to fight to get the flood gate open. The ENTP will have this run while you still can issue and have a tough time keeping the flood gate from shutting. Both speak truly and honestly but have a tendency to try reading between the lines with the other when there's nothing there to be read. We apply our own motivations to the other persons actions which is never correct (different path to the same place) and this all takes some excellent and very open communication. These issues don't last long however so at least that's a plus. We're both a type that never really lets people in and we're both amazing at reading people so we're faced with an issue of holy shit this is going to hurt if it doesn't work so both need to want love more than the fear of having it. We're both so whole alone but together there's an overlapping of abilities that gives the other a peephole (I read that four times and kept thinking there was a missing p) into a whole different world. I can tell you right off the bat, if I (as an ENTP) had internal issues I was hiding I wouldn't even consider pursuing an INFJ until I had my head on right because I know it would be picked up on instantly.
    Living proof of this I guess. But I am interested in seeing how things mature.. Being read like an open book is scary when what's in my book may not be correct now and is undergoing personal correction.

    Especially when the infj is trying to read fast and deep learning all that's wrong in my book. Gotta fasten my pace to keep up!

  8. #198

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    I didn't read all of these but did read the original post (most of it), and I thought interesting the statement that INFJ's are often confused with INFP's because they are the least orderly of the IJs. The reason it's interesting is because originally I came out as an INFJ, but the last several times I took the test I came out as an INFP. I have only taken an abbreviated version of the test (70 questions), and I've taken it several times. But I'm interested to know if my type is more consistent with that of an INFJ than that of an INFP.

  9. #199
    Senior Member Kenneth Almighty's Avatar
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    I'd just like to make the comment that this is pretty perceptive of the dynamics between my girlfriend and I. However, a couple of comments:

    -I'm an XNTP, so oftentimes I find myself overthinking certain things in fear of losing her/e (Ti takes hold and I end up analyzing the relationship)
    -This usually becomes expressed when she herself holds herself back. We've lost a bit of rapport lately, and it becomes incredibly frustrating because she holds everyone, especially herself, to a high standard, and refuses to acknowledge her faults when everything doesn't go to plan and chooses to what I consider "mope" instead (although I'm sure this downtime is very essential to the INFJ experience). It's frustrating, hence my tone, but I do my best to be understanding about it.

    Therefore the only "downside" I can think of to this kind of relationship is that ENTPs are quite an untrustworthy, unreliable bunch when it comes to the day-to-day details, which may cause an INFJ to lose hope/faith in you, and when you lose that trust then there's a grand source of friction as the INFJ turns inwards and refuses to share herself with you. But you move on and you love.

    This is all based off my experience, and rereading it makes me seem kind of insensitive. I am, but in the sense that I'm confounded and don't know what to do.

  10. #200
    Buddhist Misanthrope Samvega's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenneth Almighty View Post
    -I'm an XNTP,
    I equate being an ENTP sorta like being a virgin, you either are or you aren't. Had you said you were ENTx I wouldn't have said a word however ENTPs depending on the test will often times come out as INTPs. Reason being, if the question is "Do you feel comfortable in a large crowd?" we will answer with a yes, if it's "You require a lot of alone time?" again we answer yes, so we've given both an introverted response and an extroverted response. So if the test tries to gauge that function with too many of either type of question we test falsely as does the INFJ on their J/P function.

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