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  1. #131
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    my 5 cents: as said often, I dont really think its good to think about people in types at all. Maybe if you know them for some prolonged time you may type them for yourself, but by then you'ld already know if you like someone or not. If you typed him before you can ride down that one-laned road pretty quick as pink said .

    From my personal experience, to stay on topic, I am not sure if my girlfriend is an infj. That's to be said first. Her being tho gets closest to the infj type and if I am an entp this would be an entp/infj pairing.

    Ok now then here it comes: I'll never say at all that we have been a perfect match from the start. If you'ld assume a perfect match are two people who add to each other and harmonize that way, we were far from it when we met. We are so fundamentally different on approaching things and thats a think that has persisted until today.

    Over 4 years of relation our love for each other did evolve on a long and stony path. We had huge fights and big arguements but we are both in love and that's what brought us together everytime a new. My girlfriend is an ingenius person, with a high intellect, a big heart and an ability to perceive the world in a way that is so colourful, imaginary, loving, daring and unique.

    I've never met a person I could talk to in life without the need to explain myself and that is proof to me that our ways of thinking and feeling have evolved a similiar way. I can talk with her for hours, going off together with her on tangents, analyzing human behaviour in a deep and honest way making the whole world be a clockwork of relations interconnections, possibilities, dependancies and it creates a big picture that she with her optimistic and idealistic attitude lends a beautiful note.

    I love her for her integrity, for her ability to be honest with herself and for her high demands she sets for people close to her. She is a challenge, a sister, a lover, an idiot, a strong-willed leader, a sensible woman and a dream.

    All that I said here tho, took a long time of darkness before it evolved and its only thanks to our too sharing an equal perception of the world and her ability to empathise with other persons on the most highest level of accuracy + her ability to see when she is wrong and to talk about it like its the most natural thing on earth so we can both work on it for the future that this relationship is possible at all.

    I could never, in every nanofiber of my cyborg rational mind sign the contract that deals entp and infjs as handsdown the best pairing on earth, cause as I said there are a million factors who come into the equation between two human beings to make it happen at all. I find it charming and fun if someone would say it, but to actual use it as a scientific tool of psychology or behaviour to create type pairings, I think is fail.

    [YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8vYgqt7B0U"].[/YOUTUBE]
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  2. #132
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domino View Post
    Had I pointed out the distinct signs of desperation here, I would have been booed down for being a harpy. Coming from you, it will ride.
    Ahh, but is it the information that is the difference, or is it the approach? You always come out with fewer casualties when you take the flank.

    Dear me. Allow me to clarify (one more time - see what I did there?). I didn't say his expectations of happiness were fantasy. That would be cruel and presumptuous. I would have no way of knowing that unless I was inside his brain. What I label "fantasy" is anything defended with aforementioned desperate energy as if it were never to happen in reality. Had no possibility. Had no bearing. Had no sustaining substance.
    Which you clearly could tell it did... but that's not your place to be. Everyone's got their parts of their psyche that are prohibited to the outside world. The way we deal with the things that truly make us sad is the primary one of those for an xNTP. Strangely enough, we do that for others' benefit. If you've seen an xNTP when we're truly devastated, it's not a pretty picture, one bit.

    Do we not all feel that pang at times? We do. Believe me, I need not be taught about that. Try being a girl with a pain disorder with a history of violence and a background of poverty. Do I resent my eternal hope for better? Do I instinctively retreat into a more beautiful world to help brace for the next blow? Do I hope for the best while preparing for the worst? Do I slam the door in the face of reality when the pain is too bad? Do I shove my memories of love away while holding them so close my knuckles turn white?
    You're right, we're all human.

    It's the masochistic tendency of us all. We never live up to what's in our minds. We disqualify ourselves.
    It's about reorienting yourself to where you have an internal locus of self-evaluation, rather than relying on the outside world to define who you are and what you're worth.

    Save me. Save me. Help me. 11th hour rescue. Obscurity. Personal obliteration. The bullet that won't fire.

    What I detect as "fantasy" in this thread - this thread - is the lack of balance. Even clouds cast shadows.
    Clouds in torment also ruin people's days. Just remember, we do have a twinge of the Fe as well. We want to be useful. Just in our own way.

    lol! ... good point... ... ...
    So it goes...

    I believe C. S. Lewis refers to it as the "numinous" experience. What cannot be explained, only felt. When you're in the presence of things extremely old, or in a place with so many human presences built up on it over the centuries, do you never feel the sense that you're swimming in the spirits of the semi-departed? We die, but we don't cease.
    Not at all. In fact, if anything, I feel a greater understanding of the person as a human being, and that really, I'm not so different from those people after all, just in a different time, place and situation. That's not nearly as mind-blowing as say, the fact that you have not a single molecule in your body that you did 10 years ago. Now THAT'S mysterious.

    He says he knows no ENFJs in real life. How would he know? Do I read immaturity into this again to explain away his swipe at me when I dared to wave my hand through his smoke?
    Yup. I'm beginning to realize I'm in one of the higher percentiles for age on this board, and I'm only in my mid-20s.

    Again, you seem to detect a last ditch desperation in this thread. I find that interesting. I'm filing it away for future reference.
    He wouldn't have even mentioned it otherwise. Too personal.

    IRL, I've dealt with people who seemed irrational or actively repulsive. I remember when I was schooling in Northern Ireland, there was a girl there in my class (in my locker bay, even) who told me from the outset when I first met her, "You won't like me. Nobody does."

    I ignored that. Even though withdrawn and sarcastic, I thought she was funny and sweet-natured, and the day I told her she was beautiful, she blinked, said, "No I'm not. I'm ugly." It was ridiculous. She looked like a blond angel with beautiful skin and bright blue eyes. She'd taken the years of torment from the boys at school as truth. I remember standing several of them down like bloody-minded wolves looking for something weak to maul. I became very close with her. I even had her over to my house in the States. When we left Antrim, she came to my house to see us off and cried and cried.

    I can see through that facade. What I don't like - and have learned not to tolerate - are active punishments. I may call for help, but I don't touch wounded animals - they bite.
    Very true. You can't help those that do not want to be help. The world is fundamentally unjust, and some people by their experiences are born to be damned. This is... ah shit, time to go meditate. Why do I feel like I'm becoming more of a Buddhist every day?

    I get called Mini Me. We have the same hair, the same humor, the same intensity, the same bad eyesight, the same high temper and bookishness. We react to things the same way, sometimes in a mirror image when we're standing together. I think I scare him a lot, with my more external nature, like he instinctively wants me to protect myself, but admires me when I don't. I admire his high Ti and analytical nature.


    I think what can be openly admired about NTPs from my own experience are their capacities for confession and self-renewal. My ex-bf, an eNTP, was a complicated mix of deep caring and humility, and being an arse. lol I loved how he helped others while being a thorn in their sides. I loved his ability to bust on himself as much as others. My own ENFP sister is a marvel - I cannot comprehend how tough she truly is, though I know what I've seen is enough to tell me that she's one of the most amazing people I've ever known. Ne-dominants have their own brand of tensile strength and ability to remain "open" even when life is hurling bricks at them.
    Much appreciated. It's funny - we're very open, but only on our own terms.

    I've seen girls LEAP at jerks, and guys find the most abusive woman they can. It boggles the mind. It offends every sensible person.
    I guess that makes a lot of people insensible, doesn't it?

    Oh, yes. Do I love a little challenge.
    I will say, it tends to not be as much fun for the men as it does the women. The ball generally is in your court, so to speak.

    I tend to be, eh, old fashioned in my approaches as well. I like to see how things bear out, how certain people react to both hits and misses. It's amazing how some people can take the bad times in stride, but become ugly - like a shrieking laugh - when good things come their way. You can judge someone as easily by their reaction to prosperity as you can despair.
    True. It's like in the movie Better off Dead: "once you've had a taste of success, you'll find it suits you quite well"... not to mention the idiots who win the lottery and are penniless five years later.

    I've talked with Cascade before on this subject - we both feel as if we may be old cat ladies because we need things in love a certain way. Something hitting us just right. That intangible eureka quality of "yes". Seems like the planets must all align to get that - and who can make that happen? Your heart tells you: "Someone and no one".
    Eh, I just need to get laid. Then I need someone I can have a good conversation with. Then, if I'm really lucky, I'll find both!

  3. #133
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domino View Post
    Here's the thing. I think the whole world values the INFJ. The whole world. I'm not being sarcastic.
    The whole typology world. I'm pretty sure not many people really notice me in daily life. Initially they might be interested, but the interest wanes pretty quickly because I'm neither extremely outgoing nor "fun." The type that the whole [real] world loves is ENFJ.

    Also, why do other types always come in INFJ threads and try to bash/belittle anything pertaining to INFJs? The mere mention of INFJ tends to make other types, particularly other NFs, roll their eyes and begin "They're not that special" tirades.

  4. #134
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    The mere mention of INFJ tends to make other types, particularly other NFs, roll their eyes and begin "They're not that special" tirades.
    Show me someone who behaves like that, and I will show you someone trying to cover up their own inferiority complex. It's that simple.
    A secure person will always champion the gifts of others, and help push them along the path to their goal.

    When diplomacy fails, just tell them to F.O.

  5. #135
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    of the 5 entps i know 3 of them are maybe mystical. it's still very earthy and pragmatic. it's just being inspired by the mysteries of the universe, and feeling deeply connected to them. one of them likes stargazing and just sent me a link about doshas, which immediately reminds me of the enneagram.

    my entp friend is probably the best at immediately deactivating me and bringing out my absolute best in almost every conceivable situation. he needs no activation bc he's got all the life/social shit worked out far better than me, but what he needs help with also just so happens to be my expertise. plus it's difficult not to feel like geniuses when you communicate this well. thought is simply a communication process, and it can happen internally or externally. when it happens socially, you feel connected and part of something fucking brilliant, which is IN-spiring. Ne + Ni, when they're both supercharged and have great depth of vision, scale well, can see long-range abstraction as well, it's just a unique experience that feels very full, perfect, and complete. the Ti helps naturally absorb and focus these different layers.

    i don't have the same communication quality, the overall balance and harmony with other types in quite the same way. by which i just mean that' it's not quite so natural and effortless. yet i find communication that absolutely works for me, is meaningful, informative, enjoyable, socially engaging, exciting, intellectually stimulating, inspiring, etc with other types. enfp, intj, intp, infp, enfj etc. i would like to know more entjs. and more infjs, now that i understand them.

    i find that when i meet other N types in school, where you have shared interests, it's impossible not to become friends. sharing cultural activities is huge, altho with certain types i find it more likely that their cultural interests will fit into some larger overarching picture that will make them make sense, be interesting, grab my attention, etc. the ability to communicate why makes a huge difference.

  6. #136
    Senior Member milkyway2's Avatar
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    While I am neither an INFJ or ENTP, this was interesting.

    :p

  7. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    In my experience, it has been the patience of INFJs which has allured me. They make me feel calm and at ease. When your brain is running at seemingly .85c, you'll never believe how valuable this feeling is. At the same time, they're one of the few people who I can argue a very controversial and inflammatory position with, and even if I offend them, as soon as I apologize and make it clear that my intention was solely to discuss the merits of a position, everything is good again.
    I have heard this many times from an ENTP, he says I have a calming effect, which makes me laugh as I don't feel particularly calm inside but it is something I must exude inadvertently. It comes from being patient, consistent, dealing with my emotions in-house and having mutual understanding as the goal.

    I most definitely have a dark side but it's something I keep to myself.

    All of that means I'm not unpredictable in the nature of the way I engage with someone. I know for more flighty people that that is comforting... that I will consistently be there and have their back no matter what. And I do mean no matter what. I am also very self-contained, I am happy for my partner to go off and do whatever makes them happy. I have no desire to mold another person into what I want. I am interested in optimal dynamic which requires two satisfied people. (Downside: not really going to dazzle someone right out of the gate. That's ok, I don't like to be rushed anyway, so a slower reveal is ok by me. Means you might miss out on someone you like who is into that. C'est la vie.)

    People I care about can do and say the most dreadful things (in hindsight) but if I know it's a mistake or they are troubled it just doesn't get to me. I have broad shoulders, I will take it. I do not require a pound of flesh in return. I stand up for myself as well but it is always in a gentle way. I do not explode. And over time this breeds trust for both parties.

    I think INFJ and ENTP recoil from being openly vulnerable. So an INFJ will approach in the way we like to be approached - gently, so as not to spook. I don't know why but I do know in my bones that many of them need this just as I do.

    It's just a very complimentary dynamic that goes very deep as both people gradually peel away their layers for each other. And the process, once set in motion becomes highly compelling. Falling into trust, it's a very beautiful feeling.

    Downside of all of the above is that as Protean said, it can result in being used. (I won't go into whether it's a tactic or not, I don't believe so for a lot of INFJs extrapolating from myself being that I'm rather tactically unawares and prefer to act from my being. So, I have no evidence whatsoever really. ) I was speaking with an INFJ the other night and we both bemoaned this masochistic part of our personalities. But in thinking further on it I have decided to reframe it as a result of our abilities - valuing everyone, having compassion, seeing potential, having incredible staying power. Sometimes it's misplaced and you get burned. So be it.

    I wonder how many INFJs relate to the above. Apologies for using the royal 'we' as well.
    Likes Holy liked this post

  8. #138
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanveane View Post

    I most definitely have a dark side but it's something I keep to myself.
    $50 + a six pack beer, if you show me yours

    --------------

    A huge problem too, maybe only my perspective, is that one cant really talk about what one wants and what not. So when thinking about what a perfect match would be, you can talk about what you didnt like from past experiences but to give a quality assessment of what would be the ideal for you, one can do vaguely at best. Cause one doesnt know what kind of people, with what kind of qualities could be out there yet and tho one said for example for all of ones life "I'ld never go out with a blonde", suddenly one day there comes that special one, who throws ones world upside down. (But I have the feeling this was said earlier already )
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  9. #139
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domino View Post

    I think what can be openly admired about NTPs from my own experience are their capacities for confession and self-renewal. My ex-bf, an eNTP, was a complicated mix of deep caring and humility, and being an arse. lol I loved how he helped others while being a thorn in their sides. I loved his ability to bust on himself as much as others. My own ENFP sister is a marvel - I cannot comprehend how tough she truly is, though I know what I've seen is enough to tell me that she's one of the most amazing people I've ever known. Ne-dominants have their own brand of tensile strength and ability to remain "open" even when life is hurling bricks at them.



    I've talked with Cascade before on this subject - we both feel as if we may be old cat ladies because we need things in love a certain way. Something hitting us just right. That intangible eureka quality of "yes". Seems like the planets must all align to get that - and who can make that happen? Your heart tells you: "Someone and no one".
    Yup.

    I have heard this many times from an ENTP, he says I have a calming effect, which makes me laugh as I don't feel particularly calm inside but it is something I must exude inadvertently. It comes from being patient, consistent, dealing with my emotions in-house and having mutual understanding as the goal.
    I heard the same fairly recently...told I was rather zen. I was like.....how can I be zen when I'm so tumultuous inside every now and then and half the time I don't feel like I have my shit together?? haha. But as you say..I think it's the result of dealing with emotions in-house (predominantly), and the whole patient, consistent piece. The external cloak we put on.

    I most definitely have a dark side but it's something I keep to myself.
    Yeah, typically my negative thoughts are done via writing, but occasionally I'll talk about them with someone I *really* trust and who I know will understand.

    All of that means I'm not unpredictable in the nature of the way I engage with someone. I know for more flighty people that that is comforting... thatI will consistently be there and have their back no matter what. And I do mean no matter what. I am also very self-contained, I am happy for my partner to go off and do whatever makes them happy. I have no desire to mold another person into what I want. I am interested in optimal dynamic which requires two satisfied people. (Downside: not really going to dazzle someone right out of the gate. That's ok, I don't like to be rushed anyway, so a slower reveal is ok by me. Means you might miss out on someone you like who is into that. C'est la vie.)
    Oh, I very much relate to the bolded piece, as well as lack of flightiness and predictability (at least externally) in nature.

    People I care about can do and say the most dreadful things (in hindsight) but if I know it's a mistake or they are troubled it just doesn't get to me. I have broad shoulders, I will take it. I do not require a pound of flesh in return. I stand up for myself as well but it is always in a gentle way. I do not explode. And over time this breeds trust for both parties.
    Yep!!

    I think INFJ and ENTP recoil from being openly vulnerable. So an INFJ will approach in the way we like to be approached - gently, so as not to spook. I don't know why but I do know in my bones that many of them need this just as I do.

    It's just a very complimentary dynamic that goes very deep as both people gradually peel away their layers for each other. And the process, once set in motion becomes highly compelling. Falling into trust, it's a very beautiful feeling.


    But in thinking further on it I have decided to reframe it as a result of our abilities - valuing everyone, having compassion, seeing potential, having incredible staying power. Sometimes it's misplaced and you get burned. So be it.
    Yeah, I agree.

    Oh, and to Lauren Ashley's comment...I had to laugh at the 'I'm neither extremely outgoing nor "fun"' comment. Definitely relate!
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  10. #140
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    After 22 years of marriage to an ENTP, I'd have to say, Samvega, that your analysis is very perceptive, especially about what makes ENTP's tick. They tend to be unfairly labeled as superficial and egotistical (which may be somewhat true...) but you really catch on to ENTP's inner strengths. I find the typology-oriented relationship blurbs about why ENTP's and INFJ's are good for each other because they compensate for each other's weaknesses very annoying -- as if that's all there is to a good marriage. You make clear the inner bonds -- that ENTP and INFJ share the same worldview, essentially, as though the two types seem to mirror each other internally.

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