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  1. #1
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Default Are ENFJs the least "thoughtful" NF?

    I have noticed a very marked pattern of when any type tries to ask a serious question to ENFJs the thread very quickly degenerates into platitudes, anecdotal stories, and misplaced sympathy. Even mongrel ENFPs manage to give some insightful posts into their psyche but I have not seen that very often with threads aimed at ENFJs. Either they get less than 10 responses, six of which are made by non-ENFJs or they turn into "NO YOU'RE AWESOME!!" Chinese firedrills.

    Now, I'm being completely serious. I do not have an antagonistic relationship towards Ti. I grew up with two IxTP siblings, I was introduced to it very quickly I feel comfortable with it, I've tried to encourage it's growth within myself, sometimes it's a bad moon rising but that's OK, cause I know what it is. Even in impersonal things, like choosing a laptop or switching auto insurance I tried to do my version of extensive research, thinking carefully over what I need and comparing it to what's out there. Of course, I'm best applying Ti towards people and relationships because it's easier and the most natural mode for my Ti to be aimed. I can dissect and analyze and distill a relationship like nobody's business.

    I remember reading in Jung's Psychological Type's and reiterated in Marie Louise von Franz's Psychotherapy some key statements about the nature of Fe. Basically Fe abhors abstract and philosophical thought and only wants to engender (harmonious) feeling. Ti don't work like that. Fe-doms using Ti evidently causes such psychological torture that the United Nations is preparing a statement denouncing its use as a human rights violation. Now of course I fought with that and instantly threw the books across the room and tried to light them on fire, but while trying to get my lighter to work I stopped. I thought, "could this possibly be true?" The thought was just too much and I had to sit down.

    I've done several experiments with the ExFJs to see if this is true. I've tried to lead conversations down the path of analysis. I say it's easier with older ExFJs of course they're going in that direction whether they want to or not, but with ExFJs in my age group it's harder than putting on mascara while riding down a pothole filled road. And I can't really be objective about it myself because I'll get pulled into the Fe stuff and before I know it I'm telling someone how awesome they are. By the way, here's a list of adjectives for awesome.

    Now before anybody comes in defending how "smart" and "intelligent" the ENFJs are they know, take a Xanax and shut up. I'm not slandering ENFJs (or ENFPs!). I'd just like to know why is it finding thoughtfully elucidated statements from ENFJs on the forum is nigh impossible. I'm not talking about sympathizing or charming or cracking a joke. Part of the reason why I can only muster two posts a day is because I try to THINK about the responses I give and make them reasoned. The hamsters in my brain say no more after a certain point.

    This makes me look at Fe in a whole new light in my interpersonal interactions. I SEE it now and it's just freaking weird. It's like hearing a recording of your own voice and thinking 'is that the way I sound?' I say this neutrally, of course I have no problem with manifestations of sincere Fe. The way my Fe manifests itself is exactly the way you see it here. I don't try to avoid or pat people on the back and rub their heads and tell them it's gonna be OK. That's beginner level one to me, but that's the only way I see Fe being manifested on the forum. I acknowledge the problem or the tension and try not give them platitudes or blindly sympathize with them or overextend myself.

    So what do you have to say ENFJs? What do you THINK about? What are you THOUGHTFUL about? If I cut your brain open what would I see? Are you like a pinata and candy will fall out? Will the secrets of the universe be revealed? I'm obviously being a little sarcastic but I'm really curious to know.

    Talk to me.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  2. #2
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    But you are slandering mongrel ENFP's right? *gets xanax ready*

    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  3. #3
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    But you are slandering mongrel ENFP's right? *gets xanax ready*

    Why do you think you are a mongrel?

  4. #4
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    Why do you think you are a mongrel?
    I don't. I merely asked if we were going to slander mongrel ENFPs
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  5. #5
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    OK people. No derails by the 2nd post please.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  6. #6
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Are ENFJs the least "thoughtful" NF?
    IME, yes.

    I think it takes a while to embrace the inferior function since it is so different from the dominant. Until then there is this hate-love-hate-hate relationship with it. Adult ENFJs can be very thoughtful though, as you mentioned,.

    I would say more, but I guess this thread is mainly for ENFJ responses?

  7. #7
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Let the fight between mongrels and rainbow puppies commence!! Either way, I'll be the St.Bernard drunken outcast enjoying the show.


    For what it's worth, I know some EXFJs and my main frustration when communicating is undoubtedly Ti, or lack thereof, on their part. No matter how A -> B I make it sound, they always seem impervious to logic when they have made up their minds about the issue.

  8. #8
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    For what it's worth, I know some EXFJs and my main frustration when communicating is undoubtedly Ti, or lack thereof, on their part. No matter how A -> B I make it sound, they always seem impervious to logic when they have made up their minds about the issue.
    +1

  9. #9
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Anyone can comment, but I would like this to be a thread with thoughtful responses rather than Fe and ExFJ bashing. There are plenty of those around.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  10. #10
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    This makes me look at Fe in a whole new light in my interpersonal interactions. I SEE it now and it's just freaking weird. It's like hearing a recording of your own voice and thinking 'is that the way I sound?' I say this neutrally, of course I have no problem with manifestations of sincere Fe. The way my Fe manifests itself is exactly the way you see it here. I don't try to avoid or pat people on the back and rub their heads and tell them it's gonna be OK. That's beginner level one to me, but that's the only way I see Fe being manifested on the forum. I acknowledge the problem or the tension and try not give them platitudes or blindly sympathize with them or overextend myself.
    Quoting myself because I can do that.

    When I think about Fe too hard and seeing it in action, I feel like I get a momentary flash of what it's like to be a Ti-dominant. I think if you think about Fe too hard, I can really see how it will make you anti-social because it truly does seem farcical. The whole point of it does seem to be to make other people feel good which isn't often the point.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

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