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  1. #141
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Lookee what showed up in my User CP!

    My opinion hasn't changed much since I started this thread, but it doesn't really matter. I'm not looking for what I was looking for anymore, which is a good thing for me.

    Night, excellent points.
    Moiety, yeah but I often think people want to wring concessions, apologies, admissions of wrong doing, misdeeds, and guilt from people that have nothing to do with anything.
    Well thankfully those people who have nothing to do with anything can be unaffected by all of it.

  2. #142
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris1207 View Post
    I'm a dumbass, mushbrain ENFJ. I can't take in anything that anyone says. Sometimes it's because I actively ignore people to protect myself, other times it's because my brain just doesn't listen. I also actively avoid going out into public. Relationships are so stressful. Ever since I can remember my most active outlets have been tv and videogames. I hate having to explain myself to other people. People always want an explanation and mine never seem to be satisfactory. T seems so damn simple and yet I can never say anything that approximates an answer that they want.
    Get out of my head.

    You sound really pushed to the limit. I start hiding when I'm overloaded and can't get away from my external environment fast enough. I constantly hid in books, music, drawings, in my room, up my mind. Getting me to come back down was nearly impossible. At the latest party I attended, I spent a ridiculous amount of time hiding out, recharging to descend the stairs and face awkwardness (my ex-bf was there with his new gf) and the unexpected with some manner of civility and bonhomie.

    Sometimes I get so upset with having to handle an emotional situation in public that I have to fight bursting into tears, fleeing and shutting myself in the nearest bathroom or closet. My Fe, I feel, is telegraphing my every thought to the entire world. That makes just about every relational interaction stressful. I have to be totally recharged to handle every day life. Like my father's sick cat. I wanted to make him all better, knowing I couldn't and that he wasn't going to be all better EVER, and that was stressful. I'm not even immune to the suffering of animals. I get swamped.
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
    Neutral Good
    EII-Fi subtype, Ethical/Empath, Delta/Beta
    RLUEI, Choleric/Melancholic
    Inquistive/Limbic
    AIS Holland code
    Researcher: VDI-P
    Dramatic>Sensitive>Serious

  3. #143
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    IME, yes.

    I think it takes a while to embrace the inferior function since it is so different from the dominant. Until then there is this hate-love-hate-hate relationship with it. Adult ENFJs can be very thoughtful though, as you mentioned,.

    I would say more, but I guess this thread is mainly for ENFJ responses?
    Bingo on the love-hate-love-hate-love-hate merry-go-round.

    <> When I was in high school, I was atrocious in math because I cognitively did not understand the idea of "necessary and universal" being the connection from first principle to what ever is being deduced (Ti). This is essentially the basis of mathematical thinking, and therefore I could not really do math! I instead just "intuited" my way through math, "uh....ya I think that looks right" was my basis of understanding.

    <> Early in college, I basically valued Fe over Ti. I didn't always care if something was logical. I just went with how I felt I needed to fit into the morale, niches and roles that I needed to be in. Later in college, my Ti suddenly woke up, and I became very interested deductive logic, first principles, and philosophy in general. I was obsessed with Kant and a few others. After about a year of this, I was exposed to more "literary" philosophers like Nietzsche and then I shifted back to hating Ti and valuing Fe above logic.

    <> I'd like to think that I maintained some balance between the two after those extremes. However, knowing myself well, I think ultimately I am happiest when I am not forced to use mathematical/analytical thinking too much.


    But does any of this make me un-insightful? Not in my opinion, because Ni is often very insightful. It's ability to point out the elephant in the room and reveal a situation "for what it really is" is in in fact "insightful". I'd like to think that I've revealed a lot of personal insights on this site over my near 2000 posts! So either I'm not an ENFJ, or my longer posts are not as insightful as I once thought.

  4. #144
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    Bingo on the love-hate-love-hate-love-hate merry-go-round.

    <> When I was in high school, I was atrocious in math because I cognitively did not understand the idea of "necessary and universal" being the connection from first principle to what ever is being deduced (Ti). This is essentially the basis of mathematical thinking, and therefore I could not really do math! I instead just "intuited" my way through math, "uh....ya I think that looks right" was my basis of understanding.
    Sounds exactly like me in math classes. Not only did I not have a good grasp on Ti-based concepts, like math and algebra, I also had (have) an issue with processing numbers properly. Sometimes even addition and subtraction can kick my butt. It's like dyslexia. I have to MAKE myself do math in order to get it ground into my brain and keep using it or it literally evaporates from my mind.

    Conceptual math makes my brain catch on fire.

    <> Early in college, I basically valued Fe over Ti. I didn't always care if something was logical. I just went with how I felt I needed to fit into the morale, niches and roles that I needed to be in. Later in college, my Ti suddenly woke up, and I became very interested deductive logic, first principles, and philosophy in general. I was obsessed with Kant and a few others. After about a year of this, I was exposed to more "literary" philosophers like Nietzsche and then I shifted back to hating Ti and valuing Fe above logic.
    Same here. I discovered the joys of defeating logic problems several years ago. They still give me a fit, but I've gotten better at them by exercising what little activated Ti I have.
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
    Neutral Good
    EII-Fi subtype, Ethical/Empath, Delta/Beta
    RLUEI, Choleric/Melancholic
    Inquistive/Limbic
    AIS Holland code
    Researcher: VDI-P
    Dramatic>Sensitive>Serious

  5. #145
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    I instead just "intuited" my way through math, "uh....ya I think that looks right" was my basis of understanding.


    me too. i'd just figure out some answer that looked right and then put a bunch of related numbers down so it looked like maybe i'd gotten there the right way and was just bad at writing my steps down.

  6. #146
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    I instead just "intuited" my way through math, "uh....ya I think that looks right" was my basis of understanding.


    me too. i'd just figure out some answer that looked right and then put a bunch of related numbers down so it looked like maybe i'd gotten there the right way and was just bad at writing my steps down.

  7. #147
    Member stormyapril's Avatar
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    I had an interesting interaction with an enfj recently. I have known her for several years and at times we havent gotten along as we both recognized a mutual wierdness.

    Recently she put me to shame with respect to "thinking" about the best way to solve a people problem.

    She got stuck in a bit of a rip-off scam and lost a good bit of money. She is filing legal paperwork, but is very concerned about other people getting scammed as well so has turned the issue into a project.

    As a Te-ish mindset, I would have relied upon laws, regulations, worked organizations like the BBB, and been filing legal documents and such. I would have relied on ancacdotal stories of money lost to be the people incentive-an Fi-ish sort of thing I suspect.

    As she told the story I suggested she might investigate the owner's marital history as well to identify if there were previously existing debts that might put him in even worse light as her legal case proceeded.

    She looked at me and said-"That's a great idea, an angry ex-wife would be an excellent person to have on my side and would likely be able to provide a lot of good information regarding other screw ups in his past." She also had contacted both his new and old landlord and put the two of them in touch with each other, given he had bailed on his last lease. She was also working the entire network of former clients of this business and once she established other concurrent businesses run by him, was contacting those clients as well. She also was setting up lunch dates with certain members of the attorney general's office, as the chance of the case proceeding forward very much relies upon who actually reviews it.

    I just sat in awe and listened, as I could see how each aspect of what she was doing totally placed her case in a way that it would maximize chances of making progress and in addition, she was making his life a living hell, not by being mean, but by making him face the social/people consequences of his cheating.

    It was awesome. I was quite impressed. I'd call that thinking...

    I was in awe.

  8. #148
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    3w4s embrace the performance in a way that can be counterposed against the feats of knowledge. they generally seem more focused on charismatic renditions that tying themselves to specific ideas, bits of knowledge, consistent understandings, etc.

    1w2s focus on reasons, developing practical reason kinds of standards. they think a lot, tons of deliberation, critical reflection, etc. it's immediately apparent.

    3w4s think about their possibilities, their problematic scenarios they are trying to solve to accomplish something, to more perfectly embody the idealized example of what/who/etc they should be in a specific context. they get jacked up on the size of the challenge, and that specific challenge is what fuels them and funds their time spent thinking/learning/etc. it's all about how to build a path to success, keys in the project, rehearsing motivation and building purpose, and then going after it and most of all preparing to rise in the moment.

  9. #149
    Consulting Detective Mr. Sherlock Holmes's Avatar
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    Fe is the least analytical, exploratory and individual of the functions that NFs use, so probably. Here's an ENFJ who isn't that thoughtful.



    Pretty funny though.
    JiNe
    Ti | Fi | Ne | Si | Te | Ni | Fe | Se
    Enneagram: 5w4 sx/sp

    "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."

    "It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."

  10. #150
    Consulting Detective Mr. Sherlock Holmes's Avatar
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    Fe is the least analytical, exploratory and individual of the functions that NFs use, so probably. Here's an ENFJ who isn't that thoughtful.



    Pretty funny though.
    JiNe
    Ti | Fi | Ne | Si | Te | Ni | Fe | Se
    Enneagram: 5w4 sx/sp

    "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."

    "It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."

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