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  1. #131
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    The answer is, not to give up. If you want a taboo-free world you just keep on shockin'em. Eventually even the majority will start tolerating some things better.


    The problem is that people, specially in this relationship forum, seem to come here to discuss people rather than ideas. There's too much ad hominem and not enough detachment to let ideas flow steadily. You'd figure in such a NP-heavy environment things would be different and yet....

  2. #132
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moiety View Post
    The answer is, not to give up. If you want a taboo-free world you just keep on shockin'em. Eventually even the majority will start tolerating some things better.


    The problem is that people, specially in this relationship forum, seem to come here to discuss people rather than ideas. There's too much ad hominem and not enough detachment to let ideas flow steadily. You'd figure in such a NP-heavy environment things would be different and yet....
    I wonder which is the greater likelihood: the abolition of unnecessary sensitivity or the triumph of forced social grace?

    Do they need to stand in opposition? Seems to me the ideal interaction would incorporate respect for diversity of thought while allowing for a natural expression of human emotion to important ideas.

    That is to say, a sense of urgency to express opinion, without judging the essential character of your opponent for disagreeing with you.

    I don't see any other way to progress philosophy than to realize the inevitability that one's analysis is perpetually incomplete.

  3. #133
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Lookee what showed up in my User CP!

    My opinion hasn't changed much since I started this thread, but it doesn't really matter. I'm not looking for what I was looking for anymore, which is a good thing for me.

    Night, excellent points.
    Moiety, yeah but I often think people want to wring concessions, apologies, admissions of wrong doing, misdeeds, and guilt from people that have nothing to do with anything.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  4. #134
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Moiety, yeah but I often think people want to wring concessions, apologies, admissions of wrong doing, misdeeds, and guilt from people that have nothing to do with anything.
    Most certainly.

    This sort of unhealthy emotional behavior appears often the result of misplaced inability to confront dysfunctional relationships in other parts of their lives. Instead of addressing the difficult emotional event, they seek to displace their feelings of inadequacy onto others. That way, they can avoid the legitimate crisis in their lives by convincing themselves that the problem lies elsewhere, rather than within.

    It's a self-defeating external locus of control.

  5. #135
    Senior Member ExAstrisSpes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moiety View Post
    You'd figure in such a NP-heavy environment things would be different and yet....
    but, but. . . .I'm an NJ. . . .

    And yes, I initially joined TC so that I could talk about someone and try to understand him better (since he's a bit of a quiet person and I can be a bit impatient when I want to figure someone out).

  6. #136
    Glycerine
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    Who cares? My whole aim at this site is to relax. I don't really want to get into that much depth on this website.... it's not real life. It's my escape from the seriousness of real life. I have had many people tell me that I'm "thoughtful", "analytical", "cerebral" and the like in real life. Why does it matter if people on the internet think I'm "thoughtless"? How much impact does it have on me in the real world.

    Ironically, there's also a lot of the other extreme.... I'm so smart and intellectual because I can make convoluted discussions and nitpick at the most irrelevant points....pseudo-intellectualism at its finest.

  7. #137
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    I wonder which is the greater likelihood: the abolition of unnecessary sensitivity or the triumph of forced social grace?

    Do they need to stand in opposition? Seems to me the ideal interaction would incorporate respect for diversity of thought while allowing for a natural expression of human emotion to important ideas.
    yeah. i think they both aim at the same eventual stuff anyway. don't all humans basically want the same thing? security, love, understanding, room for growth. what gets us in trouble is how we have such different ways of going about getting those things

    Quote Originally Posted by Pitseleh View Post
    Who cares? My whole aim at this site is to relax. I don't really want to get into that much depth on this website.... it's not real life. It's my escape from the seriousness of real life. I have had many people tell me that I'm "thoughtful", "analytical", "cerebral" and the like in real life. Why does it matter if people on the internet think I'm "thoughtless"? How much impact does it have on me in the real world.
    yeah, seriously. honestly, i've joked about enjoying trolling before. i do, even though jaguar might condemn me for it. it's the internetz. being able to do whatever you want without real social implications. is half the fun

  8. #138
    Senior Member chris1207's Avatar
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    I'm a dumbass, mushbrain ENFJ. I can't take in anything that anyone says. Sometimes it's because I actively ignore people to protect myself, other times it's because my brain just doesn't listen. I also actively avoid going out into public. Relationships are so stressful. Ever since I can remember my most active outlets have been tv and videogames. I hate having to explain myself to other people. People always want an explanation and mine never seem to be satisfactory. T seems so damn simple and yet I can never say anything that approximates an answer that they want.

    T really stresses me out. I'm unemployed right now. I need to find a job but I find it so extremely difficult to draw up a resume or do research. I get so tired after doing just 30 min to an hour of research. I've seriously gotten a good nights rest, gotten up, had a good meal, gotten to it and been back to sleep 2 hours later. Perhaps part of that is the stress of not having a job and feelings of worthlessness as a result. shrug

    Giving in to T feels like giving in to everyone elses' opinion.

  9. #139
    Senior Member animenagai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris1207 View Post
    I'm a dumbass, mushbrain ENFJ. I can't take in anything that anyone says. Sometimes it's because I actively ignore people to protect myself, other times it's because my brain just doesn't listen. I also actively avoid going out into public. Relationships are so stressful. Ever since I can remember my most active outlets have been tv and videogames. I hate having to explain myself to other people. People always want an explanation and mine never seem to be satisfactory. T seems so damn simple and yet I can never say anything that approximates an answer that they want.

    T really stresses me out. I'm unemployed right now. I need to find a job but I find it so extremely difficult to draw up a resume or do research. I get so tired after doing just 30 min to an hour of research. I've seriously gotten a good nights rest, gotten up, had a good meal, gotten to it and been back to sleep 2 hours later. Perhaps part of that is the stress of not having a job and feelings of worthlessness as a result. shrug

    Giving in to T feels like giving in to everyone elses' opinion.
    Chimera of Filth

    A gruesome beast with dripping flesh
    Clings to me as a sick fixture
    My throbbing heart it gnawed apart
    It stalks and hunts me through mirrors

  10. #140
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    I'm a little late to the game, but I can give you my own insights on the ENFJ. (I have extensive experience; my father is an ENFJ.)

    The stereotype here seems to describe the ENFJ a manipulative personality full of platitudes and no real opinions. I cannot state how different that is from what I know.

    I think if you cut open my father's brain you'd see a thousand detailed blueprints for social change projects. He's got a few amazing ideas in his head and he's always trying to get the manpower to carry them out. He's incredibly disciplined when it comes to people and interpersonal affairs; he negotiated politics and backstabbing for 30 years to become his department's longest-serving tech services vendors. And his department is one of the toughest in the state.

    My father's very technical -- he's a programmer -- but as soon as he could manage it he left coding and went on to manage coders and projects. He's superb at negotiating with people and pushing their buttons. He knows his opponent's psychological weaknesses and he does well at promoting harmony among the many programmers who work for him (not easy considering his programmers are at once high-ego and fragile).

    My father is also someone who thrives on consensus. It's very difficult to know what he's thinking at any given moment of time. He's a huge devil's advocate. He also has difficulty admitting that something is objectively wrong. To him, the world is subjective. Every opinion has some validity, no matter how nonsensical it can seem to me or anybody else. As long as that opinion exists, it can be defended on an emotional level.

    The few opinions he does own, he keeps very close to the vest and does not share. My father loves Mozart -- to the point of absurdity; I think we've got at least a hundred books about him at home -- and hates when others put his music down. We've come across people who do, but he doesn't defend his tastes. Afterward, we'll talk about it, and my father will admit to be flabbergasted/hurt/annoyed/upset that someone might say that about Mozart.

    My reaction usually is: Why didn't you mention it at the time?
    His: I didn't want to spoil /the mood/.

    He also can sell his ideas very well and keeps his enthusiasm about something in check long enough to get the other person excited about it. (Something I have trouble doing.) He's got a healthcare tech project he wants to work on and he's already got sixty people on board! I think the idea is brilliant, but what's different about my father is that he can correctly gauge emotional climates on a macro and micro level and figure out what he can do and when. Once he leaves his state job, I can see him succeeding very well.

    I don't know much about my father's childhood experiences. I don't even know much about what he thinks on a day-to-day basis. Though I'm sure we're close, again, he doesn't feel that he needs to share his opinions about things and often gets irritated when I ask him, directly, what he thinks about a particular subject. Often, he'll say, "I already told you!" when he never actually told me anything.

    As a father, he's pretty prone to guilt-tripping. I can't tell you the number of times I've done something without realizing I've done it just to placate him or stop the constant flow of guilt-trips. He's also very aware of social protocols. He never liked it when I was untidy or spoke louder on the train than I should have. He also inherited some of his strict mother's social prejudices -- he's from a 3rd world country -- so sometimes there're some bizarre left-field judgments that get expressed in this context.

    In general, my father is a very gentle and humane person with a great deal of empathy, social vision, and motivation. He's an excellent parent and has taught me a lot. He's always been an example of what I could achieve if I weren't so lazy, scatterbrained and undisciplined.

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