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  1. #91
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    OK I think I found one!

    I wrote this a long time ago about Time Travel. The reason why I think this is a Ti interuption of Fe is because everyone was having a good time and then I went and threw a wet blanket on everything. Would you say this is a Fe-specification reaction against Ti?
    Was that perhaps Si? Pointing out the facts.

    Or perhaps Si+Ne? Pointing out the facts plus connecting the dots between the facts, the discussion, your friends, the now.

    Dunno.


    But with Ti in their somewhere. I like the idea that the inferior function displays itself in the good operation of the auxiliary.

  2. #92
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    I think it's still on topic--your friend seems similar to my friend. I still love my ENFJ to pieces, but I'm learning just how limited her great qualities are (by choice, I presume--I'm certain she could grow them to other areas, I just don't think she wants to because she likes things the way she likes them). I don't think it's selfishness in terms of her intentionally being selfish, but rather a lack of engaging IF-THEN, Ti thinking to even become aware of how her subtly imposed standards are an inconvenience, annoyance, and hindrance to the health of her relationships.

    I think it might just be a maturity thing, though. A bit of normal self-absorption (like everyone has to some degree) mixed with "it is what it is," ExxJ "my world is structuring that around me" can lead to more deeply unintended self-absorption.

    Until they mature enough to regularly and repeatedly pick things through with their Ti (where they can see how they don't live in a bubble, they aren't a lead character in a play, but rather their moods, actions and choices affect others) they probably unintentionally cause others to flex to their standards a lot.
    Yep--luckily, our friend-chemistry is such that we're just straight with each other. She's a big straight-shooter (she intimidates a lot of people, actually), so when she does something that I'm not willing to flex over, and she can't see it, I can just set a boundary and not beat around the bush. We might fight, but we work through it, and figure out where we're not seeing eye-to-eye. She is one of the few people I've ever had to do that with, since she just kind of has that blindspot when it comes to the ramifications of her actions sometimes. I do feel that we're mostly very complementary, though.
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  3. #93
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    And another thing:

    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    I wrote this a long time ago about Time Travel. The reason why I think this is a Ti interuption of Fe is because everyone was having a good time and then I went and threw a wet blanket on everything. Would you say this is a Fe-specification reaction against Ti?
    It seems like there's a couple of things to remember, one serious one being it's kind of weird and strange to hear people talking about using their functions independent of other functions. Also I think it just really does make sense that anyone's inferior function will work best if it works through the person's auxiliary function, lending a sort of stamp of approval in the right spots, and being truculent in the wrong spots. And directly accessing the inferior function would generally be exhausting and fraught with peril.

    I think, for example, that you as ESFJ may have a leg up on using Ti exactly because your first analytical port of call would naturally be Si. It seems to me, with no or minimal personal experience of Si, that introverted sensing will be much more methodical and analytical than Ni. So, apart from sounding much more concrete than the run of the mill ENFJ, you also sound more analytical. Certainly when you write, you are clearly more interested in grounding understanding in concrete, assessable stories. Personal preference or type-based tendency? Don't know.

    A thought: when ESFJ want to analyze something, I bet you really prefer fact points as a basis, yeah? Details, maybe people facts too. That'd be Si in operation, wouldn't it? (Plus Ti looking over the shoulder.)

    And maybe when ENFJs want to analyse something, they'll choose comparing the subject of analysis to The Dream. More about potentials and possible paths, and The Bigger Path, the one Ni has been dreaming on for so long.

    That's a guess. I don't know really.

  4. #94
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post

    It seems like there's a couple of things to remember, one serious one being it's kind of weird and strange to hear people talking about using their functions independent of other functions. Also I think it just really does make sense that anyone's inferior function will work best if it works through the person's auxiliary function, lending a sort of stamp of approval in the right spots, and being truculent in the wrong spots. And directly accessing the inferior function would generally be exhausting and fraught with peril.

    I think, for example, that you as ESFJ may have a leg up on using Ti exactly because your first analytical port of call would naturally be Si. It seems to me, with no or minimal personal experience of Si, that introverted sensing will be much more methodical and analytical than Ni. So, apart from sounding much more concrete than the run of the mill ENFJ, you also sound more analytical. Certainly when you write, you are clearly more interested in grounding understanding in concrete, assessable stories. Personal preference or type-based tendency? Don't know.

    A thought: when ESFJ want to analyze something, I bet you really prefer fact points as a basis, yeah? Details, maybe people facts too. That'd be Si in operation, wouldn't it? (Plus Ti looking over the shoulder.)

    And maybe when ENFJs want to analyse something, they'll choose comparing the subject of analysis to The Dream. More about potentials and possible paths, and The Bigger Path, the one Ni has been dreaming on for so long.

    That's a guess. I don't know really.

    Hmmm, this is also something I'm wondering. Am I "seemingly" more analytical than the ENFJs on the forum because I'm not running on Ni+Ti, but instead Si+Ti? I must admit, I'd never recognize Fe fueled Si+Ti through anything on the forum because I'm only supposed to be concerned about traditions if I'm an ESFJ (which I don't recognize in myself) and recognizing any other manifestation would be difficult. And trying to tease it out IRL is very difficult and takes a lot of controlling the conversation to get that deeper Si+Ti analysis out. So that could be a point of lack of recognition because maybe they are doing some version of Fe fueled Ni+Ti and I'm not recognizing it as such.

    This is a good point and thanks for saying it. This could be what I'm noticing and there's no lack of anything.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
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  5. #95
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    i didn't read this whole tread so apologizes, etc, if I am misinterpreting...

    but it depends on how you define thoughtful. I think you may be biased towards the introvert's kind of thoughtfulness. Introverts tend to express thoughts most clearly in writing, so that may be why you think that the ENFJ comments here are not "thoughtful". Also, extroverts are more likely to be out talking to people rather than on a forum, so the sample size of ENFJ's here is much smaller than other types (INFP and INFJ for instance!).

    when I have a one-on-one conversation with my ENFJ close friend, he has lots of insights about so many things. Granted he is probably not as introspective as me, but....he's an extrovert. However he can very clearly express different kinds of emotions in a way that I have heard from few others. But I think the ENFJ strength lies in talking more than writing (I could be wrong though as I don't know many ENFJ's!)

  6. #96
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    My ENTJ bff Athena is going through a very hard time. People are treating her badly. I spoke to her on the phone last night and I told her that I would drive to her house (in another state) and eat her enemies.

    Me: *ding dong*
    Enemies of Athena: *opens door*
    Me: RAWWWRRRRR!!!!!! RAAAWWRRRAAARRRGGG!!!
    Enemies: EEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!! *haplessly fleeing*

    This made her feel so much better, just knowing that I loved her and that I'd drive for hours just to eat her enemies. lol That's my brand of thoughtfulness, and she appreciates it.

    I also tell my mom and dad thank you a lot when they do things for me. It pays to be polite and I want them to know how much I appreciate their efforts on my behalf, but I also say thank you to service persons (like our awesome plumber), bank tellers, the bag boy at the grocery store, etc because I think it's important to show people some respect. I was the little girl in kindergarten saying thank you for my teacher's assistance - I was brought up to be civilized. I guess that could be considered an observation of societal norms, but to me it's more than that. It's about according dignity to others whether they "deserve" it or not.
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  7. #97
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PinkPiranha View Post

    I also tell my mom and dad thank you a lot when they do things for me. It pays to be polite and I want them to know how much I appreciate their efforts on my behalf, but I also say thank you to service persons (like our awesome plumber), bank tellers, the bag boy at the grocery store, etc because I think it's important to show people some respect. I was the little girl in kindergarten saying thank you for my teacher's assistance - I was brought up to be civilized. I guess that could be considered an observation of societal norms, but to me it's more than that. It's about according dignity to others whether they "deserve" it or not.
    +1. This is one of the many reasons why you are awesome. Everybody is equal and deserves equal respect.

  8. #98
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    +1. This is one of the many reasons why you are awesome. Everybody is equal and deserves equal respect.
    Fankee.

    I just can't abide boorish behavior. And how hard is it really to say "thank you"? Takes two seconds and it leaves behind a good feeling with someone you may have to do business with again, and who will regard you more favorably.

    Down South, we have another polite behavior that makes me laugh. I was speaking to man in local government on the phone, he was very nice and had that old skool Southern gentleman thing kicking.

    After our phone conversation ended (it was for some financial reason, but we even discussed how to get rid of tree ants in one's kitchen -- that's how casual it can get down here), he told me "Stay in tuh-day, Miss Pink, it's too hauht to come see me."

    When I was a diesel mechanic, I used to have all sorts of country/old skool Southern men calling me Miss Pink, and I think it's charming.
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  9. #99
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    You know, originally I didn't think I had anything to add to this thread, but earlier today I was musing over an ENFJ I dated at one time.

    He was certainly capable of deep conversation, intellectual topics, analyzing things, and so on, and that's one thing I really liked about him - we could really engage well on a 'deep', thoughtful level...something I hadn't really experienced with others I had been involved with prior to him. I know he was also just reaching this point, though, where he willingly stepped down into the 'darker regions', and more negative aspects of life, etc, and talked about them, and really opened up about his own personal struggles as well as issues he had interacting with others -- something he admitted he hadn't really done for the majority of his life growing up, as his kneejerk reaction was to always just put on a happy face and joke around, etc. I really admired these deeper currents of his, and it's what drew me to him.

    So I was chagrined when I introduced him to friends, as he didn't show ANY of that - he became what I saw as superficial, constantly making jokes (and sort of bad ones at that), trying to keep the atmosphere upbeat, etc, and to be perfectly honest I was sort of embarassed, as my friends in turn didn't really see any bit of who HE was - just this little joking charade he was putting on. I think it was engrained in him to just put on this deflective front, or something. I don't know. I'm not saying this is necessarily an ENFJ thing, as he, like anyone, had 35 years of 'baggage' - from his family, life experiences, whatever.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  10. #100
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Yes, but did you really expect him to talk about such personal things to your friends?

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