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  1. #81
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    You know what's weird about this debate? Complaints consistently go unheard. Or trivialised. Or misdirected.

    Why is that?

    But half the world uses Fe. How come you haven't been able to characterise it adequately? How come you won't say?

    Because you can't always tell the difference between other people's feelings and your own?


    If you have the feelings, they're yours. If you're affected by other people, you're affected. If you manage this situation in the best way you can, you're a manager.

    What are the rules?

  2. #82
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    I'm really starting to be wary of pandas for some reason.
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
    Neutral Good
    EII-Fi subtype, Ethical/Empath, Delta/Beta
    RLUEI, Choleric/Melancholic
    Inquistive/Limbic
    AIS Holland code
    Researcher: VDI-P
    Dramatic>Sensitive>Serious

  3. #83
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Again, learning that avatar was a panda shocked me to death the other day. I'm wary, too.

  4. #84
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    Again, learning that avatar was a panda shocked me to death the other day. I'm wary, too.
    It doesn't look healthy, just drugged and high-five-y. Panda babies should never give high-fives right out of the womb. They should start slowly with nose or ear wiggles.
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
    Neutral Good
    EII-Fi subtype, Ethical/Empath, Delta/Beta
    RLUEI, Choleric/Melancholic
    Inquistive/Limbic
    AIS Holland code
    Researcher: VDI-P
    Dramatic>Sensitive>Serious

  5. #85
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
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    I don't think I've ever been manipulated by an ENFJ, or that one has ever tried to manipulate me. I still don't understand this concept of Fe = manipulation. And if you're feeling manipulated, can't you just say, "I don't think I will, thanks?" When my manipulator radar goes off, I find it pretty easy to make it known that I know what someone's attempting to do, and nip it in the bud.

    Perhaps because I grew up in the South, Fe = hospitality, to me. It makes me feel secure. My old theatre prof grew up in Ohio, and he was always very distrustful of the Southern brand of Fe--he felt like it was ungenuine, though I don't think he ever had any evidence that it was. But he FELT like it was manipulative and false. It never occured to him that the people who were using it were using it genuinely and with good intentions. He always liked the brusqueness of New Yorkers because it felt to him like at least you knew where you stood. Brusqueness makes me feel uncomfortable, because it doesn't take into account how others might receive your demeanor. Point is, it is merely perception--some people might be manipulating you, but it might also just be your perception and what you feel comfortable with. Perhaps ENFJs get a bad rap because they are Fe primary, so you have a lot of it directed at you. The ones I know are extremely genuine and goodhearted, and will quickly examine their own motivations if you ask for clarification.
    Something Witty

  6. #86
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PinkPiranha View Post
    I'm really starting to be wary of pandas for some reason.
    Know what, I already had a reply ready moments after I posted that last message in this thread, then I went to sleep and mostly forgot it, but it was something like:

    "If you really do practice not being understood, one practical outcome is, y'know, not being understood."

    And there was a second sentence, but I forgot it. Wish I could remember, it was a good sentence. It had a subtext, something about management being more trustworthy than trust, but it didn't come out and say that directly. To my mind, that sentence, whatever it was and lost now, would have been more effective than this paragraph.

    It's a pain in the ass, though, having direct request for information be met by generous feeling modifiers. I know one day it's going to come back and trip me up. I'll get more and more pissed off at the obfuscation, and then one day, a little more than late, someone'll come out with a clear statement and I'll have to back off being righteous.



    "As extraverts, their contacts are wide ranging. Face-to-face relationships are intense, personable and warm, though they may be so infrequently achieved that intimate friendships are rare."

  7. #87
    Senior Member Valuable_Money's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brendan View Post
    My type does not manipulate. ENFJ just understands how his actions speak.

    Discuss.
    THis whole thread is an elaborate plot to manipulate us all into buying tube socks. You call me crazy now....
    Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh? wgah'nagl fhtagn

  8. #88
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDP2525 View Post

    1) I do use Fe. although in a limited range. With those I'm very comfortable with and feel a genuine bond with. Otherwise, I try to be a polite person who shows a natural good will towards his fellow man/woman.
    That's Fi. With practice, your dominant Ti can be "pushed" into its superego Fi for brief periods of time. (I suspect that this is how such middle functions are most often expressed.)
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  9. #89
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    It's a pain in the ass, though, having direct request for information be met by generous feeling modifiers. I know one day it's going to come back and trip me up. I'll get more and more pissed off at the obfuscation, and then one day, a little more than late, someone'll come out with a clear statement and I'll have to back off being righteous.
    Hive five little baby panda.

    My theory of the day is that Fi and Fe are speaking two very different languages-both verbal and nonvocalized forms of communication.

    Fe doesn't speak Fi and Fi doesn't speak Fe. Yet they really kinda look the same at first so you think you are communicating. It reality you hear spanish but the person is really speaking portugease. You can pick up lots of the words and thing you sort of understand but loose much meaning.

    I speak Fi and and my Fe listener doesnt understand. Then I turn up the volume and they still dont get it. Then I get resentful. The same thing happens in return when Fe tries to talk to Fi. We annoy the shit out of each other and feel as though the other is manipulating, when I think really we just keep trying harder and harder to communicate the point. We are in an Fi-Fe screaming match at some point, while smiling nicely.

    Also Fe tries to control what I "feel". It tries to tell me what I should feel in a given situation. It assumes we should all internally "feel" the same or at least externally look as though we "feel" the same. It is all implied-does the Fe know they are implying this is a really good question.

    It would be akin to Te telling a Ti dom what to "think". Ti has its own rules defined by localized logic it has been exposed to. If Te comes in and tries to force Ti to work according to some other rules that violate the Ti rules of logic, of course Ti gets pissed, even if the Te rules are real and in the best interest of problem solving.

    I see the Te-Ti conflict all the time between INTPs and ISTJs at work.

  10. #90
    Rainy Day Woman MDP2525's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    That's Fi. With practice, your dominant Ti can be "pushed" into its superego Fi for brief periods of time. (I suspect that this is how such middle functions are most often expressed.)
    So does this mean I'm some sort of superhero?.... I'll take it!!
    ~luck favors the ready~


    Shameless Self-Promotion:MDP2525's Den and the Start of Motorcycle Maintenance

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