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  1. #21
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    Most types can be manipulative, the difference is in how they do it. NTPs will spin a web in which the only outcome that is "logical" is the one they present and must be followed, and if it isn't, that outcome isn't "logical" and therefore not what should be done. FJs tend to load questions or situations with emotional content so if you pick the "wrong" answer, you "look bad" and can get kinda trapped which can appear to be manipulation.
    You're right. But both ways are deliberate, nothing just "happens" to be that way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    I'll assume you have never been in close proximity with a particularly manipulative ENFJ. NTP logic twisting is not in the same league as ENFJ subterfuge and subtle trickery. ENFJs' skills lie with people and feelings, and they know how to manipulate either or both, to their own aims. They know how to gloss over the truth and present it in an altered form that appears to be correct to those who are not keen enough to pick up on it. They are naturally dramatic and speak with conviction; they'll get under your skin to provoke an emotional reaction. People buy what they sell -- hook, line, and sinker. Those that suspect something is going on can't point it out logically so their claims look to have little veracity. All the facts and logical explanations in the world won't matter. Even the "enemy" may begin to believe them.

    This may seem like an exaggeration, but I assure you, it is not.

    An ENFJ did this to an INTP friend of mine, and he is still trying to pick up the pieces more than a year later. And I have at least a few ENFJs in my immediate family, so I know how they get when unhealthy.


    That's not what I meant. I meant consciously turning other people against a person, people, or thing.
    And you're right.


    I am often "guilted" into things or made to look bad when dealing with one ENFJ in particular. Since I have Fe also, I can identify it when it happens, but I am helpless because I really don't want to be the bad guy.

    I have a freeloader that was supposed to be here for 2 weeks and it's going on 6 months now, and I am powerless to stop it. He's an emotional predator, and I am thoroughly impressed.

  2. #22
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Another example is this dude who gets under my skin. He pokes and prods and acts like an all around asshole - but he's so sweet and charming, how can anyone possibly get mad at him? I know him all too well though and he knows I'm on to him. So he pushes and take that one extra f***ing step and gets the expected result of me flipping out on him. Then he sits back with a stunned expression on his face and wonders aloud that "he has no idea what happened, he just asked a simple question and that evil jeno flipped out on me." Cue the harem girls running to comfort him and pamper him for the rest of the day. He's like a snake in the grass. Bastard.

  3. #23
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    So he pushes and take that one extra f***ing step and gets the expected result of me flipping out on him. Then he sits back with a stunned expression on his face and wonders aloud that "he has no idea what happened, he just asked a simple question and that evil jeno flipped out on me."
    Yup. It's like "Who me? I didn't do anything, it's that monster over there."

  4. #24
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    Another example is this dude who gets under my skin. He pokes and prods and acts like an all around asshole - but he's so sweet and charming, how can anyone possibly get mad at him? I know him all too well though and he knows I'm on to him. So he pushes and take that one extra f***ing step and gets the expected result of me flipping out on him. Then he sits back with a stunned expression on his face and wonders aloud that "he has no idea what happened, he just asked a simple question and that evil jeno flipped out on me." Cue the harem girls running to comfort him and pamper him for the rest of the day. He's like a snake in the grass. Bastard.
    Tsk tsk. You should know that a million half-crimes don't amount to even one full-crime.

  5. #25
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    Tsk tsk. You should know that a million half-crimes don't amount to even one full-crime.
    Really, jen. You should be ashamed of yourself for flipping out on him like that. The moral character of such people as yourself.

  6. #26
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    whoa, the only person I ever really tried to sabotage was myself. However it is fun to word things in such a way to mess with folks (but never malicious).

  7. #27
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    Really, jen. You should be ashamed of yourself for flipping out on him like that. The moral character of such people as yourself.
    No, not lacking in moral fiber, just naive. You can't beat them at their own game, you need to go inventive on their arses. An insulting implication to be sure...considering Jenocyde's an ENTP

  8. #28
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Hahaha, I'm more ashamed of always falling for it. but he knows that my kryptonite is that I can never walk away from a debate. I'm trying to, though.

  9. #29
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    No, not lacking in moral fiber, just naive. You can't beat them at their own game, you need to go inventive on their arses. An insulting implication to be sure...considering Jenocyde's an ENTP
    exactly!

  10. #30
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IDK123 View Post
    whoa, the only person I ever really tried to sabotage was myself.
    Every ENFJ is not like this, of course.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    No, not lacking in moral fiber, just naive. You can't beat them at their own game, you need to go inventive on their arses. An insulting implication to be sure...considering Jenocyde's an ENTP
    But in the cases where it is their word against yours, how do you get others to believe your side of it? The answer is, you can't. Only those who are sharp enough will believe you, and the others (99 percent of people) will stand behind the ENFJ.

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