• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

[ENFJ] ENFJ's: Not Manipulative.

heart

heart on fire
Joined
May 19, 2007
Messages
8,456
We live in a soceity that glorifies manipulation in the name of advertsing to convince us we need to buy things.
 

AphroditeGoneAwry

failure to thrive
Joined
Feb 20, 2009
Messages
5,585
MBTI Type
INfj
Enneagram
451
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
We live in a soceity that glorifies manipulation in the name of advertsing to convince us we need to buy things.

right on. our society, in the media anyway--maybe not in real life, glorifies many cruel and negative ways of relating, either for the shock factor (because we're lazy, bored dumbasses), or for the almighty dollar.
 

Kalach

Filthy Apes!
Joined
Dec 3, 2008
Messages
4,310
MBTI Type
INTJ
Sure. However, permission can be, and often is, manipulated from you. In fact, the best manipulators know that the best way to manipulate is to first get someone's permission. At that point, what is it?

I don't know. But tomorrow I'm buying that 7-layer Protection Spell & Mojo Booster I heard about. It really looks like the Wish Fulfillment Charm Mum got me for my birthday a couple years back just isn't going to cut it anymore. If manipulators are manipulating permission, oh man, I, I just don't know.
 

Udog

Seriously Delirious
Joined
Aug 2, 2008
Messages
5,290
MBTI Type
INfp
Enneagram
9w1
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
We live in a soceity that glorifies manipulation in the name of advertsing to convince us we need to buy things.

Oh, and don't forget manipulation via the news media to influence public opinion.

I don't know. But tomorrow I'm buying that 7-layer Protection Spell & Mojo Booster I heard about. It really looks like the Wish Fulfillment Charm Mum got me for my birthday a couple years back just isn't going to cut it anymore. If manipulators are manipulating permission, oh man, I, I just don't know.

That's not a very empowering and constructive way to look at it. You are so afraid of what someone might be doing that you fail to see what they are doing.

Also, ever wonder why your mom actually bought you that Wish Fulfillment Charm? :devil:
 

Kalach

Filthy Apes!
Joined
Dec 3, 2008
Messages
4,310
MBTI Type
INTJ
You mean... she might have been duped?

Oh, man, I am so going to Consumer Affairs.
 

Udog

Seriously Delirious
Joined
Aug 2, 2008
Messages
5,290
MBTI Type
INfp
Enneagram
9w1
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Ever wonder why I asked you if you wondered why your Mum bought you the charm?
 

Kalach

Filthy Apes!
Joined
Dec 3, 2008
Messages
4,310
MBTI Type
INTJ
Wait a damn minute! Who's the manipulator here today?! I thought we agreed... :steam:
 

Udog

Seriously Delirious
Joined
Aug 2, 2008
Messages
5,290
MBTI Type
INfp
Enneagram
9w1
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
My giving you permission was all part of the plan...
 

Kalach

Filthy Apes!
Joined
Dec 3, 2008
Messages
4,310
MBTI Type
INTJ
:happy0065::happy0065::happy0065:


Ladies and gentlemen, this has been a presentation of "Permission Time" Theater


Permission! Abuse it wisely.
 

Kalach

Filthy Apes!
Joined
Dec 3, 2008
Messages
4,310
MBTI Type
INTJ
Hey, quick question, leading and loaded: is everything I say now suspect?

Unless I go ahead and deal properly with my ancient feeling, yeah? Because it is the origin of the things I claim. It's personal, individual, and I'm mean to try and pseudo-intellectually universalise it. I should properly deal with the feelings before trying to lay claim to truth.

Is that what happened here?
 

Siúil a Rúin

when the colors fade
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
14,037
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
496
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Manipulation can take a lot of forms from direct, overbearing, bludgeonings of all varieties to discreet, confusing mind games. Bullies are "manipulative' in that they get other to act without their full consent. Some people achieve the same thing through deceit or distorting information whether it be flattery or insults, or just overload of information like some cons do. The manner in which someone chooses to be manipulative could correlate to type, but I don't see how the impulse to do it would be a type thing.
 

jtanSis1

New member
Joined
Oct 1, 2008
Messages
291
MBTI Type
INFP
ENFJ's are considered manipulative since they try to help others the best way they can, even if their way is better or if they didn't ask for help. It's just being freindly and sometimes works when someone doesn't think to ask for help or is not sure of a better way. The problem is that it's done on impulse and then there can be a problem.
 

Kalach

Filthy Apes!
Joined
Dec 3, 2008
Messages
4,310
MBTI Type
INTJ
Bullying? But I had such a dream. It was going to be so great. We could all have shared it.

I don't like you anymore. You spoiled it.



/Fe
 

sculpting

New member
Joined
Jan 28, 2009
Messages
4,148
Bullying? But I had such a dream. It was going to be so great. We could all have shared it.

I don't like you anymore. You spoiled it.

/Fe

That's a really great comment. Surely no bullying was really meant. So many great ideas are in all the threads Kalach. Everyone has input that is valuable and should be considered.
 

Udog

Seriously Delirious
Joined
Aug 2, 2008
Messages
5,290
MBTI Type
INfp
Enneagram
9w1
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Hey, quick question, leading and loaded: is everything I say now suspect?

Unless I go ahead and deal properly with my ancient feeling, yeah? Because it is the origin of the things I claim. It's personal, individual, and I'm mean to try and pseudo-intellectually universalise it. I should properly deal with the feelings before trying to lay claim to truth.

Is that what happened here?

Wow, I must admit I wasn't expecting this question, so I admire your effort here.

I think you are onto something. You seem to be considering ANY Fe-based attempt to make you do something that you would otherwise not do as manipulation, and are quick to load the word with it's 'unfair' and 'deceitful' connotation. That doesn't seem like a very constructive way to view it. Unless you decide to live life alone, you will always find yourself doing things you may not have originally intended. So you will always view these people as 'deceitful' and 'unfair'.

And you know what? To label everyone as deceitful and manipulative is to put the liars and cheaters in the same basket as the honest helpers and supporters. You will give the cheaters the same amount of influence in your life as the honest supporters.

This is something that I've noticed as of late, and perhaps something to think about:
The Ts expect the Fs to avoid making a rational argument personal (which is reasonable enough), but then fail to make a personal argument rational. I think that's the challenge both sides must face.
 
Top