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  1. #251
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Kalach that was a very good post. Very insightful...

  2. #252
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Blame Udog.





    oh so happy to be wrong, la la la.

  3. #253
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    I blame U dog for all my insightful moments. He's a genius.

  4. #254
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Manipulation can take a lot of forms from direct, overbearing, bludgeonings of all varieties to discreet, confusing mind games. Bullies are "manipulative' in that they get other to act without their full consent. Some people achieve the same thing through deceit or distorting information whether it be flattery or insults, or just overload of information like some cons do. The manner in which someone chooses to be manipulative could correlate to type, but I don't see how the impulse to do it would be a type thing.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

    I want to be just like my mother, even if she is bat-shit crazy.

  5. #255
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    ENFJ's are considered manipulative since they try to help others the best way they can, even if their way is better or if they didn't ask for help. It's just being freindly and sometimes works when someone doesn't think to ask for help or is not sure of a better way. The problem is that it's done on impulse and then there can be a problem.

  6. #256
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Bullying? But I had such a dream. It was going to be so great. We could all have shared it.

    I don't like you anymore. You spoiled it.



    /Fe

  7. #257
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    Bullying? But I had such a dream. It was going to be so great. We could all have shared it.

    I don't like you anymore. You spoiled it.

    /Fe
    That's a really great comment. Surely no bullying was really meant. So many great ideas are in all the threads Kalach. Everyone has input that is valuable and should be considered.

  8. #258
    Seriously Delirious Udog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    Hey, quick question, leading and loaded: is everything I say now suspect?

    Unless I go ahead and deal properly with my ancient feeling, yeah? Because it is the origin of the things I claim. It's personal, individual, and I'm mean to try and pseudo-intellectually universalise it. I should properly deal with the feelings before trying to lay claim to truth.

    Is that what happened here?
    Wow, I must admit I wasn't expecting this question, so I admire your effort here.

    I think you are onto something. You seem to be considering ANY Fe-based attempt to make you do something that you would otherwise not do as manipulation, and are quick to load the word with it's 'unfair' and 'deceitful' connotation. That doesn't seem like a very constructive way to view it. Unless you decide to live life alone, you will always find yourself doing things you may not have originally intended. So you will always view these people as 'deceitful' and 'unfair'.

    And you know what? To label everyone as deceitful and manipulative is to put the liars and cheaters in the same basket as the honest helpers and supporters. You will give the cheaters the same amount of influence in your life as the honest supporters.

    This is something that I've noticed as of late, and perhaps something to think about:
    The Ts expect the Fs to avoid making a rational argument personal (which is reasonable enough), but then fail to make a personal argument rational. I think that's the challenge both sides must face.

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