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  1. #221
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Don't let this thread die. I enjoy a good beating.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  2. #222
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    Ha. Knew you were going to say that. No, I really want to know how INFJs manipulate. Guilt tripping is not it. That's more like ISFJ.
    INFJ manipulation is crafty and serpentine, but it's OK because I seek mine out when I want to plot and scheme.

    There is an element of guilt-tripping involved, I think that's just a general FJ thing I wouldn't even say SFJ vs. NFJ it's just plain ol FJ. All types guilt trip, but the way it goes down may be dependent on type. The manner in which it's done is dependent on SFJ vs. NFJ.

    NFJ manipulation is more psychological in nature, but specifically INFJ, let's see.

    When I've seen my INFJ friend purposely manipulate someone I feel like she's doing it in defense and not out of being a manipulator. For example her old boss used to pluck her head and call her a silly girl (she's a grown ass woman), but then cover it up as a funnyHAHA and act like he was just teasing her and that she couldn't take a joke.

    I don't know how to really describe she's just really deft at maneuvering situations to her liking by build up. For example since she never asks for something when she does ask if she doesn't get it she'll make the person feel guilty for denying her what she wants. But she'll purposely never ask for this something so she can at a later date ask for what she wants and being denied would make the other person look mean.

    I more or less view it as they're very good at creating a very specific system of dealing with people but it's very planned out, done with the end goal in mind they move accordingly. Damn, I'm usually good at coming up with examples and I have some but the way I've seen two INFJs do it, it's just so below the radar, I'd have to explain the situation out for you to see the chain of events and how they moved at important junctures in order for it to make sense. If I take one isolated incident it would be like, what's wrong with that.

    INFJ manipulation is like a movie you have to watch several times in order to figure out what the hell happened!
    Last edited by proteanmix; 07-15-2009 at 04:43 PM. Reason: typos i don't feel like correcting
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  3. #223
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    NFJ manipulation is more psychological in nature, but specifically INFJ, let's see.

    When I've seen my INFJ friend purposely manipulate someone I feel like she's doing it in defense and not out of being a manipulator. For example her old boss used to pluck her head and call her a silly girl (she's a grown ass woman), but then cover it up as a funnyHAHA and act like he was just teasing her and that she couldn't take a joke.

    I don't know how to really describe she's just really deft at maneuvering situations to her liking by build up. For example since she never asks for something when she does ask if she doesn't get it she'll make the person feel guilty for denying her what she wants. But she'll purposely never ask for this something so she can at a later date ask for what she wants and being denied would make the other person look mean.

    I more or less view it as they're very good at creating a very specific system of dealing with people but it's very planned out, done with the end goal in mind they move accordingly. Damn, I'm usually good at coming up with examples and I have some but the way I've seen two INFJs do it, it's just so below the radar, I'd have to explain the situation out for you to see the chain of events and how they moved at important junctures in order for it to make sense. If I take one isolated incident it would be like, what's wrong with that.

    INFJ manipulation is like a movie you have to watch several times in order to figure out what the hell happened!
    I think I know what you mean. It's usually out of defense. And I think I do that sometimes

  4. #224
    ..... Intricate Mystic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    Don't let this thread die. I enjoy a good beating.
    I don't know about the others, but I have to go now. Until we meet again.....

  5. #225
    Rainy Day Woman MDP2525's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    You signal this tendency in many rather obvious ways. What is going on?
    I didn't expect a question considering how obvious my statement was. To answer: nothing is going on.
    ~luck favors the ready~


    Shameless Self-Promotion:MDP2525's Den and the Start of Motorcycle Maintenance

  6. #226
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    A lot of people actually DO come on the Internet forums to debate. Particularly TJs.
    In fact it's not debate. It's theory-building, the construction of a framework around an intuition. To all intents and purposes, an agenda, seemingly fixed and negative. This is the legendary "close-mindedness." And for what it's worth, not a Ti way of "building understanding" at all.


    *ducks, runs, learns to know better*

  7. #227
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    Yea, I don't have a problem with manipulation per se. I do have a problem with dishonesty.
    Psychological manipulation relies on a degree of subtle deception. Deceit being the epitome of dishonesty.

  8. #228
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Psychological manipulation relies on a degree of subtle deception. Deceit being the epitome of dishonesty.
    Whenever you choose to be polite you are deceiving in some way. What's the difference? Am I dishonest because I didn't use the words I really wanted to say, even though I got to the same point?

  9. #229
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    Whenever you choose to be polite you are deceiving in some way. What's the difference? Am I dishonest because I didn't use the words I really wanted to say, even though I got to the same point?
    I don't think choosing to be polite counts as manipulation or deceit, on its own.

    But if you're being polite in order to mislead or falsely persuade others, that would be dishonest.

  10. #230
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    I don't think choosing to be polite counts as manipulation or deceit, on its own.

    But if you're being polite in order to mislead or falsely persuade others, that would be dishonest.
    So if I am being polite to, let's say, not let children hear me curse their mother out, that's ok? But if I'm being polite to get you to be nicer to me back, that's not ok? All politeness has intent. And if intent is the thing that separates deceit from truth... you see where I'm going with this.

    All I'm saying is that lying is "bad" but there are some times when lying may be good, or helpful - as in the sense of being polite and not choosing the words that you actually want to use. In the same way, manipulation is "bad" but there are times when it's harmless. Your child needs vitamins so you promise him dessert tomorrow if he eats his vegetables today . Manipulation, but so terrible?

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