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  1. #41
    Member jaku's Avatar
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    missing pieces of ice cream cake.

    ...also you need to demonstrate understanding. practice honesty and a great deal of transparency. communication of feelings is very important. and clarifying without just making excuses. Because, if i'm right, she won't tell you flat out that it's dumb or she doesn't agree with it, but she'll definitely take it into account the next time you open your mouth.
    it's tough to be trustable.
    and the closer you get (you said 7-8 months together i believe) the more she will appreciate your expression of concern and also the more you will be scrutinized and pitted against her values. (and expected to fit into them)
    don't change yourself, but make it a point to really, really pay attention to all things. subtle and otherwise. keep communicating. without attacking.
    no attacking.
    INFJs see this as completely pointless.
    I do at least

    i hope that meant something^ (is comprehensible)
    Last edited by jaku; 07-04-2009 at 12:03 AM. Reason: surely not to make it easier to understand
    So you were born, and that is a good day.
    And someday you'll die and what a shame.
    But somewhere in the between, theres a life in which we all dream,
    And nothing and no one will ever take that away.

  2. #42
    Senior Member amelie's Avatar
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    I hope it works out for you! Good luck!

  3. #43
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    This issue isn't really just about this incident. She's more likely looking at your future together: how you resolve conflict, how you express unpleasant feelings, how important other people are to you and how you show it, your differing religious views. You might need to think yourself whether this is going to work or not. It's not about being forgiven for whatever it is that bothered her so that things can get back to normal. Have you thought about these issues and do you think you can realistically reconcile your different way of dealing with things over the long term? Most INFJs are looking way down the road and want to know that you have also thought about the logistics of how the relationship will work out as well.

    A couple of things though that are common to many INFJs:

    They will put up with quite a lot even though they can see when there are behaviours they don't like, but in times of stress it is like the dam holding those feelings in bursts and some of those negative feelings gush out. Just because it isn't verbalized right away does not mean that areas of difference or certain behaviours are not observed or the person is okay with them. They are just trying to not be hasty and also to look for whether it is an isolated incident or a pattern.

    They don't want to be in conflict with someone they love, but they also don't want to leave things not properly resolved. In addition, they need a little processing time. All together, this means that you may see behaviour where they try to suck up their negative feelings and be close (eg the makeout session), but then discover that they really can't ignore the problem at hand after thinking about it further. This means that you need to be prepared for something to be revisited. The best thing you could do is listen, ask questions and not try to fix it before things are properly resolved. She will appreciate your efforts with the flowers and ice cream cake, but if you get frustrated and feel that she's asking for too much if that and an apology doesn't do it, you will keep having to revisit this topic because there are underlying issues. Get it done with now and laid to rest. Things may get a little worse before they get better, but you are helping her get to the bottom of those feelings quicker so that she can also feel better quicker.

    One thing you are doing very well is taking responsibility for wanting things between you to be good again rather than pretending there's nothing wrong. That communicates you care. Just don't try to rush through this poor stuff and let her talk as much as she needs to. Listening may not feel like an active way of fixing things, but it is the very most productive thing you can do. If you can make it through this successfully, she will feel even more love and respect for you than before.
    Last edited by fidelia; 07-05-2009 at 07:45 PM.

  4. #44
    Senior Member mwv6r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    This issue isn't really just about this incident. She's more likely looking at your future together: how you resolve conflict, how you express unpleasant feelings, how important other people are to you and how you show it, your differing religious views. You might need to think yourself whether this is going to work or not. It's not about being forgiven for whatever it is that bothered her so that things can get back to normal. Have you thought about these issues and do you think you can realistically reconcile your different way of dealing with things over the long term? Most INFJs are looking way down the road and want to know that you have also thought about the logistics of how the relationship will work out as well.
    Well said!

    On a surface level (i.e., through the lens of an ENTP's retelling) it almost sounds like the INFJ is being oversensitive and a little bit diva. HOWEVER, we don't get like that for no reason. Something has been building up and now she's flipping the fuck out on you. It's not pretty when we get like this, but there is a reason. In the past when I started acting like that it was because I was considering ending the relationship, and seemingly small things were beginning to symbolize very big things in my mind.

    Something that definitely irks me is when someone is in a bad mood and takes it out on me. If it happens once in a while, I can roll with the punches and will probably let it slide. But if it becomes a regular thing (and especially if you're playing awful music you know I hate as a rejection of my attempt at friendly conversation!) then yeah, I will probably flip out on you. Also, I CAN'T STAND it when someone tries to minimize my feelings. If I'm upset, taking five minutes out of your day to acknowledge my upset and hear me out will make your life a hell of a lot easier in the long run. Because when I'm told, implicitly or explicitly, that my feelings don't matter or that I'm making a big deal over "nothing," that just pisses me off more. It's much better to get everything out on the table with an INFJ and work through the conflicts. Then after you think that the conversation is finished, press her to talk more, because there is still more in there that is bothering her and that she wants to talk about but is afraid to for fear you might reject or embarrass her. I like to think that INFJs can make very supportive, loving partners, but that all hinges on positive, open communication, because if conflict is ignored instead of dealt with, it is going to grow and grow until it explodes and then you'll have a very angry, addled INFJ on your hands. And not even icecream cake will do you any good.

  5. #45
    Senior Member bluebell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mwv6r View Post
    Something that definitely irks me is when someone is in a bad mood and takes it out on me. If it happens once in a while, I can roll with the punches and will probably let it slide. But if it becomes a regular thing (and especially if you're playing awful music you know I hate as a rejection of my attempt at friendly conversation!) then yeah, I will probably flip out on you. Also, I CAN'T STAND it when someone tries to minimize my feelings. If I'm upset, taking five minutes out of your day to acknowledge my upset and hear me out will make your life a hell of a lot easier in the long run. Because when I'm told, implicitly or explicitly, that my feelings don't matter or that I'm making a big deal over "nothing," that just pisses me off more.
    I'm not INFJ, but I'm the same. And making excuses for it all on top of that... Not a good place to be in.
    ...so much smoke pouring out of each chromosome.

  6. #46
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    i'd recommend focusing on the perspective fidelia explains above.

    i don't necessarily think you are doing anything wrong, but when stressed and upset by something a lot of other mental notes flood us for a while with associated negativities and grey areas and possible pitfalls and it takes time for us to sort out the wreckage and refuse.

    she will want you to understand, and you should keep trying to achieve this, but it is not wholly your responsibility. find a way to show you care, that you want to work through this, that you care about how she feels, and that you want to fix the situation and ease her distress, worry (about the future), potential insecurities, etc. this is what you CAN and must do to keep an infj. be open and direct! her feelings may overwhelm her and she probably won't understand them for a while- they DO take a very long time to process bc us F types approach these things in a very round-a-bout holistic type way that at times can be very inefficient and especially indirect. be there for her to work through it, be as understanding as you can be, and most of all supportive for her. if she needs time alone to get her balance back, let that happen. if there is a better way you can communicate your feelings, intentions, and attitudes towards her, think about it, strategize, and use it.

    you sound like you're trying pretty hard to get this back on track. if you are open, we can not continue faulting you for not understanding. that is on us as well. i think you have a pretty good foundation for her to recognize and appreciate. it takes a while to translate experience between F and T, and it takes even longer to recognize the process of balancing needs in romantic relationships.

    also emphasize that you recognize the power of her feelings NOW, but that you are trying to stay even keel bc you do value her enough AND the potential you have together as a couple to have a little faith that you can work through it even when you don't immediately understand, and that you are willing to work on any problems that arise from miscommunication, misunderstanding, and occasional mishaps/mistakes.

    our impending tones of tragedy and (slight?) paranoia when something goes wrong sometimes needs a slap in the face of T realism. and something to silence us and our overactive minds/imaginations (think amelie when she is waiting for the guy to arrive at the cafe and he is very late).

    also: is it just me or are infjs often very very very guilty of what they are accusing this entp of? people get moody and it affects their behavior, he is trying to make up for it and takes responsibility for the aspects of the situation that he recognizes as his own mistakes. maybe i am just a far worse infj than most of you, but i'm VERY appreciative of the T people in my life who deal with my moodiness and (nobly) let it go when i get a little kranky. we may struggle with our feelings more internally and have very high and very humane aspirations, but we still contribute our own pollution now and again, just like everyone else.

  7. #47
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Undead Tom - How did things go? We're rooting for you!

  8. #48
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    Unhappy

    Status Report - I don't know.

    I feel like I'm just floating around, waiting. I really despise waiting, but this brings it to a whole new level. It's that whole Emily Dickinson - If You Were Coming in the Fall, thing.

    It's going to be worth it in the end though. I just need to figure things out. Right now she won't talk to me on the phone or in person, but she will accept text messages and emails. Something about too much pain.

    I'm having a hard time typing giving the current stress, but I'll continue to try and keep communication up.

    I need to finish those damned daisies, not being able to set forth THE GAME PLAN isn't helping anything.

    Very Confused,
    Undeadtom

  9. #49
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Undeadtom View Post
    Status Report - I don't know.

    I feel like I'm just floating around, waiting. I really despise waiting, but this brings it to a whole new level. It's that whole Emily Dickinson - If You Were Coming in the Fall, thing.

    It's going to be worth it in the end though. I just need to figure things out. Right now she won't talk to me on the phone or in person, but she will accept text messages and emails. Something about too much pain.

    I'm having a hard time typing giving the current stress, but I'll continue to try and keep communication up.

    I need to finish those damned daisies, not being able to set forth THE GAME PLAN isn't helping anything.

    Very Confused,
    Undeadtom
    She sounds like a royal pain, to be quite honest. She needs to communicate. I wouldn't bother with her any longer. But I don't know how long you two have been together and how you feel, so wait some more if you want.

  10. #50
    Member jaku's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    She sounds like a royal pain, to be quite honest. She needs to communicate. I wouldn't bother with her any longer. But I don't know how long you two have been together and how you feel, so wait some more if you want.
    ..mmhmm...
    So you were born, and that is a good day.
    And someday you'll die and what a shame.
    But somewhere in the between, theres a life in which we all dream,
    And nothing and no one will ever take that away.

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