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  1. #21
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    For possibly more context, a quote from an email she sent me:

    "The issue is that it has not been addressed. On Wednesday. On every day leading up to that, following it. If it was truly the worst you have ever treated me, if you felt you had done something wrong, you should have taken action."

    This still baffles me...

  2. #22
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    Also:

    "The issue is that you hurt me and you never took care of it."

    Of course I had felt like it got taken care of... until it was apparent that it wasn't. I don't understand how she wants it taken care of. I've apologized multiple times, attempted to put it in the past (which obviously didn't work as you know), had multiple discussions where at the end things seem right and then I realize I'm missing a piece of the puzzle still.

    Any insight, knowledge, or otherwise is appreciated.

  3. #23
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    How sure are you that she is INFJ? Has she taken the MBTI; has it been confirmed in any way?

  4. #24
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    Yeah she's taken the actual test.

  5. #25
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Undeadtom View Post
    Yeah she's taken the actual test.
    But are you sure these results are correct? What about her is INFJ? Nothing about this is saying INFJ to me, actually, so that's why I'm wondering.

  6. #26
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Alright, I am going to rewind 15 years, and put myself in her shoes ... and this is going to be harsh, but I think you are ready to hear the real deal, as I see it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Undeadtom View Post
    I was going to take her to my cousin's wedding reception, show her off, be proud of her (she likes that sort of stuff). I ended up angering myself (mistakes that were entirely my fault, that got me heated for some reason) and when I'm angry I shut myself off from people. So we had a 5 minute car ride to my house, she tried to get some lighthearted conversation going, I was stone.
    I would have felt mortified that this was happening right before meeting your relatives. I would have wanted to try to fix your mood so that the rest of the evening would be tolerable at least, if not enjoyable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Undeadtom View Post
    When I tried to talk to her at my house, she had shut herself up. On the way to the reception I was playing some Thrash metal (She hates the stuff, but I love it and find it to be a great way to get my aggression out). No conversation for the majority of the car ride. 10 minutes before we get there, the album starts repeating, so I cut it off and start trying to talk.
    A poor choice indeed; at this point she would think you couldn't care less about her feelings, in more ways than one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Undeadtom View Post
    We pull in to the place and she starts crying (later telling me it was at not being able to escape the horrible situation about to occur).
    Of course she was crying - she wants to be in the best possible frame of mind to make you proud of her in front of the relatives too. But you've just dragged her through emotional mud and expect her to tidy up in seconds flat. Not fair.

    Quote Originally Posted by Undeadtom View Post
    My mother has me introduce her, I walk her to the front of the table and say "This is rachel" and walk 5 feet and sit in a chair. She was left up there with my mother. She also seemed upset that I didn't talk to anyone other than my mom, my other cousin (not the married one), my uncle, my father, and her. Fair enough.
    I would have wanted to shoot you for leaving me hanging in front of your relatives. How horribly embarrassing. You're lucky she didn't dump you that night, IMHO. I might have - right after getting through this social hell you have imposed on me at the wedding. At least I would be too nice to embarrass you by dumping you right there on the spot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Undeadtom View Post
    Right before the cake, as they were cutting it, we got into a small argument about moses in art (the bit about the mistranslation so some representations of him have horns). I got real pissed off because she basically told me point blank that I was wrong about something I know (I even went back and checked, just in case I was some uneducated asshole).
    Adding fuel to the fire now, hmmm? You would have been better off to drop it, but you have to be right all the time, don't you? So what if you were right? Is that so important, really? More embarrassment in front of the family ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Undeadtom View Post
    Forward to the Wednesday after... I ask her to walk so we can talk about that Saturday's events. So I can try to correct them. Things went well, I thought, we even ended up making out a little in her driveway as we stargazed.
    So you thought all was well - you figure, if you ignore it, it will all just go away. Because usually it does. But you were so wrong this time ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Undeadtom View Post
    Sunday, I wanted to go to her church with her to spend more time with her, even though I'm not religious, and have a bit of a disgust for modern christianity. Terrible idea. She's more interested in God, and I should have expected that. But even when we weren't in church, the car ride before, the pizza shop afterwards, I just don't feel the connection to her. Somehow I was able to speak my mind about that to her on the ride home. When we got there, we went a walking to keep the conversation going.
    She would have no doubt sensed your facetiousness, and although appreciated your attempt to go to church with her, would have felt your lack of sincerity to really try to connect with what she feels about God.

    Quote Originally Posted by Undeadtom View Post
    We talked and talked and she seemed more upset by wednesday and friday, because on both those days I didn't seem affected by the event. By the end of the night I was in tears(clearly I was affected). But before she left, she said something which basically meant that this wasn't over. It might just be a waiting game.
    You are in big trouble. You are close to getting dumped in my opinion. You will need to act sincerely and quickly if this girl means anything to you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Undeadtom View Post
    There were also lots of excuses provided by me along the way, which did nothing but make things worse.
    Spluh. They wouldn't mean much to me either, if they were just lame and only offered to make the issue go away.

    Quote Originally Posted by Undeadtom View Post
    Now she's very distant, which is killing me. I believe that this is the most depressed I've felt, considering my appetite dropped from 3 large meals with 2 small snacks a day to one medium sized meal a day.
    Ooooh poor you, hungry are you? You better suck it up and get over yourself quick if you want this girl to forgive you for basically demonstrating that you can't take care of her emotional needs. Imagine, taking her to a wedding, getting in an argument first, acting like an inconsiderate boob, introducing her to your family like she's no better than a sack of potatoes and then forcing her to have to make small talk for the rest of the night with your family? A nightmare! Why? Because she is wondering if you will always abandon her now. Can she really trust you with her feelings? Will you just trample all over them whenever you get in a "bad" mood?
    ______________

    Quote Originally Posted by Undeadtom View Post
    What do you guys think of what I'm doing so far?

    I'm planning on buying her a deep red rose, which symbolizes my shame, and a daisy, because they are her favorite (which is cool, because they symbolize purity and innocence, and her name "rachel" means the same).

    I'm going to wake her up to those, then make her breakfast. Sitting in the middle of the table will be this old brass Peacock etched vase, with daisies in it, that have been crafted out of construction paper, wooden skewers, and pipe-cleaners.

    Then I'm going to leave, and come back at night to take her out for dinner. Then watch "What dreams may come" afterwards. I haven't seen it, but a good friend recommended that we watch it because it's romantic. I've been wanting to watch that with her for a while now, but shit happens... unfortunately.
    You will have to be sincere to make this work. I wish you all the luck in the world, because at some point, she won't forgive these emotional breaches of trust anymore.

  7. #27
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    PeaceBaby -- LOL.

  8. #28
    Senior Member amelie's Avatar
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    Okay, first, with the wedding - do you realize that INFJ's can pick up feelings and sometimes not know why they suddenly start feeling that way? So if you were angry, she may have not only seen that you were angry, but gotten entangled in your feelings. It took me a long time to realize that when that was happening to me, I had to assess where it was coming from, so it could be that part of the reason she was upset with you was your anger.

    Also, you were pretty inconsiderate with her feelings - here she is going into this new, stressful situation with your family and you were totes worried about your own feelings/needs and not hers! Then, in the heat of that whole scenario, you put her down about something factual. I hate to tell you, but you weren't very nice to her at all. If I were in that situation, I would have felt like you didn't much value me.

    In regard to the church issue, one thing you really have to realize about INFJ's is that we do not like it when you trample on things that we value. It's totally okay if you don't value the same thing - we can respect that - but don't make fun of us for our beliefs.

    INFJ's have layers and layers, and they test people before allowing them close - sometimes repeatedly. If you fail, you get set out farther. I think that's what's happened - you proved that you might not be worthy by being unkind to her and apparently unkind to some other people at the wedding.

    At least for me, it's far better to hear that you actually know what you did that offended me than to hear your rationale or excuses or whatever. Just be real and honest and 'fess up.

    As far as making up to her, it depends on what kind of things make her feel loved and valued. Whatever else you do, you need to sit down with her and tell her that you know she's hurt and maybe has lost some trust in you, but that you really want to understand why that happened and how you can avoid hurting her in the future in the same way. Then listen - and follow through consistently.

    I agree w/ PeaceBaby - I think you may be close to losing her. Try addressing her feelings and understanding her feelings, not logically trying to explain your thought process and actions. A lot of times w/ my NT, when I feel he is not hearing me, it's because he's getting the gist right, but he's not acknowledging the hurt.

  9. #29
    Member jaku's Avatar
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    at the end of it all, I really do enjoy ice cream cake.
    So you were born, and that is a good day.
    And someday you'll die and what a shame.
    But somewhere in the between, theres a life in which we all dream,
    And nothing and no one will ever take that away.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Alright, I am going to rewind 15 years, and put myself in her shoes ... and this is going to be harsh, but I think you are ready to hear the real deal, as I see it.

    So you thought all was well - you figure, if you ignore it, it will all just go away. Because usually it does. But you were so wrong this time ...

    Ooooh poor you, hungry are you? You better suck it up and get over yourself quick if you want this girl to forgive you for basically demonstrating that you can't take care of her emotional needs. Imagine, taking her to a wedding, getting in an argument first, acting like an inconsiderate boob, introducing her to your family like she's no better than a sack of potatoes and then forcing her to have to make small talk for the rest of the night with your family? A nightmare! Why? Because she is wondering if you will always abandon her now. Can she really trust you with her feelings? Will you just trample all over them whenever you get in a "bad" mood?
    ______________
    You will have to be sincere to make this work. I wish you all the luck in the world, because at some point, she won't forgive these emotional breaches of trust anymore.
    Thank you for this.

    Just one thing, it's not that I'm hungry, it's that I'm not.

    Sincerity seems to be the key, and unfortunately I suck at showing it so I'd better work my ass off to muster some of that stuff up to the surface.

    This is the first time I've really messed up in the 7-8 months we've been together. Yes, I should be shot for what I've done to this girl.

    She seems to want me to understand the situation, so I'm working on it.

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