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[Fi] Are Fi and selfishness related?

Amargith

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For what it's worth, I don't expect my friends to contact me just to keep in touch. Nor do I expect them to remember my birthday. As such, it can be difficult for me to keep in touch and remember theirs.

If I do those things for a friend, it's one of the highest compliments I can offer. It means I care enough to do things I'm not geared to naturally do. They'll never know the meaning I put behind such things, because to them it's just expected as a social grace.

Listen to the Dog, he knows :coffee:
 

heart

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Some people make life happen, while others let life happen to them and react. I notice alot of INFPs fill the latter category.

This is lack of development of Ne. It's tertiary temptation and being stuck in the Fi-Si loop. If it's the person's usual, all-the-time mode then it's a neurotic, egocentonic adpatation to life. It's when Fi crosses the line from being individualistic to being self-centered to the point of being crippled when dealing with life and building relationships.

To quote the article: Ne says: "Pay attention to your surroundings and do the thing that will have the most interesting results. Don't be dumb just because you don't have any experience."

Goes for building relationships with other types as much as it does anything else in life.
 

Galusha

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I'd like to know if there's any function that's not selfish. I mean, what with survival of the fittest and you folks still being alive and all :D
 

Amargith

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This is lack of development of Ne. It's tertiary temptation and being stuck in the Fi-Si loop. If it's the person's usual, all-the-time mode then it's a neurotic, egocentonic adpatation to life. It's when Fi crosses the line from being individualistic to being self-centered to the point of being crippled when dealing with life and building relationships.

To quote the article: Ne says: "Pay attention to your surroundings and do the thing that will have the most interesting results. Don't be dumb just because you don't have any experience."

Goes for building relationships with other types as much as it does anything else in life.

I dunno, heart. Ne is my dominant function, but I do this too. I *just* don't do maintenance of relationships and I rarely seek people out myself coz I don't want to intrude and I have other things to keep me occupied. Friendship to me means being able to be myself and being there for the other person if they need me. No maintenance needed, imo. People know they can call me day or night if need be. If people do need me or wanna do somethign they tend to contact me and I'm totally ok with that. Even when meeting new people, I just let them come to me or observe instead. Unless I'm really curious about something.
 

Tiny Army

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Yeah Amargith pretty much summed up my approach to relationships. It involves giving everyone a lot of space to breathe because one of the things I want out of a relationship, any relationship, is to be able to leave whenever I damn well please.

I have had so many Fe using friends (No, not one. This is a repeat incident.) who would just turn up at my house unannounced as if this was totally okay because we're friends who lived in the same neighbourhood. Even after I told them I was uncomfortable with it and added that they should simply call first if they were coming over. This didn't work either. They would call and when I would fail to answer (could be something as simple as I was walking the dog and left me phone at home) they would come over anyway!

They always seemed to see this as an indication of how strong they thought our friendship was but I really resented being intruded upon so often and with such little care about MY feelings regarding the whole thing. I was then accused of being selfish when I stopped answering their phone calls just because I did NOT want to see them every day, all the time.
 

Lightyear

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It involves giving everyone a lot of space to breathe because one of the things I want out of a relationship, any relationship, is to be able to leave whenever I damn well please.

Honestly I understand the need for space and that sometimes people just grow apart and relationships break down but if someone already enters a relationship while eyeing the backdoor, insisting that he should be able to leave at any time, quite frankly I would see it as a waste of time and energy to even start building anything with this person. I guess you would just not be my type of friend because for me it's all about slowly getting to know each other, building trust and a sense of intimacy and I am not going to invest time in someone who thinks it's normal to be here today and gone tomorrow.

I have had so many Fe using friends (No, not one. This is a repeat incident.) who would just turn up at my house unannounced as if this was totally okay because we're friends who lived in the same neighbourhood. Even after I told them I was uncomfortable with it and added that they should simply call first if they were coming over. This didn't work either. They would call and when I would fail to answer (could be something as simple as I was walking the dog and left me phone at home) they would come over anyway!

Please don't blame that on Fe (It might be more of an extroversion thing.) I would NOT just turn up at someone's house even if they just lived around the corner, I hate it when people do that to me since I need my own space too. Advance warning please.
 

heart

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This thread swings from not staying in touch, even when someone broke their foot and is laid up to the other extreme of people who just drop in without asking first and people who are so invasive it's abusive. There's got to be a middle ground there.
 

Amargith

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Please don't blame that on Fe (It might be more of an extroversion thing.) I would NOT just turn up at someone's house even if they just lived around the corner, I hate it when people do that to me since I need my own space too. Advance warning please.

LOL, considering the title of this thread, that's an ironic statement to make. And no, this is not a jab, I'm just amused.
 

Tiny Army

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Honestly I understand the need for space and that sometimes people just grow apart and relationships break down but if someone already enters a relationship while eyeing the backdoor, insisting that he should be able to leave at any time, quite frankly I would see it as a waste of time and energy to even start building anything with this person. I guess you would just not be my type of friend because for me it's all about slowly getting to know each other, building trust and a sense of intimacy and I am not going to invest time in someone who thinks it's normal to be here today and gone tomorrow.



Please don't blame that on Fe (It might be more of an extroversion thing.) I would NOT just turn up at someone's house even if they just lived around the corner, I hate it when people do that to me since I need my own space too. Advance warning please.


Four out of the six people who have done this in the past two years were IN/SFJs.

There's personal and intellectual intimacy and then there's expecting me to be at your beck and call. I like having more than one friend, especially ones who're not over in my house all the damn time eating my food. If I feel my space invaded I feel like I have the right to retreat or to hang out with other people and not be yelled at for it and repeatedly told that I am an indication of the decline of morality in the youth.

The many many Fe users in my life all seem to want their friends to be "like family" but I have a family. It is big and loud and in my face and I don't need another one.

Edit: Apparently being in the same place at the same time with the same people every day for the rest of your life is the pinnacle of normalcy. Whoops, looks like I got that wrong. I will strive to keep my life soul-crushingly dull from now on!
 

Lauren Ashley

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I barely hang out with most people at all, let alone show up to their house uninvited. Strong introvert.

Honestly I understand the need for space and that sometimes people just grow apart and relationships break down but if someone already enters a relationship while eyeing the backdoor, insisting that he should be able to leave at any time, quite frankly I would see it as a waste of time and energy to even start building anything with this person. I guess you would just not be my type of friend because for me it's all about slowly getting to know each other, building trust and a sense of intimacy and I am not going to invest time in someone who thinks it's normal to be here today and gone tomorrow
I'm the same way. I think INxJs need to be secure in their investments, whatever they are.
 

Tiny Army

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Friendship is totally a stock! Its not about intellectual communion at all, just cold hard time clocked in! I know my friendship totally has an hourly rate!

Buy shares in Apple and get an INTP BFF free!
 

Lauren Ashley

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Friendship is totally a stock! Its not about intellectual communion at all, just cold hard time clocked in! I know my friendship totally has an hourly rate!

Buy shares in Apple and get an INTP BFF free!

:rolli:
 

Udog

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Friendship is totally a stock! Its not about intellectual communion at all, just cold hard time clocked in! I know my friendship totally has an hourly rate!

People coming over uninvited and taking food from your fridge don't respect boundaries. Those people are jerks and leeches, and you are better off without them. Most healthy, decent Fe people would be horrified at the sheer rudeness and breech of protocol.

It's unfortunate that your primary example of Fe is from a horribly unhealthy user. It has skewed your expectations to the point where you consider unacceptable behavior to be exemplary for Fe, instead of an exception that should be avoided.
 

Lightyear

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LOL, considering the title of this thread, that's an ironic statement to make. And no, this is not a jab, I'm just amused.

I think it all comes down again to different approaches to friendship and communication styles and if you live in a small or a big town.

As a general rule I wouldn't like someone just to come over unannounced (which doesn't happen in London anyway, everyone just lives too far away and is far too busy, so the person you are visiting will most likely not be at home anyway), text me and see if I am free and I will be happy to spend time with you. That's just the way things work here.

What I was talking about in my initial post was not communication styles anyway, it was about a friend just being plain selfish and self-absorbed, if it would have been her style to keep a friendship going by dropping in unannounced I am sure we could have found a middle ground but if the other person doesn't invest anything at all in the friendship how is it supposed to survive?


Friendship is totally a stock! Its not about intellectual communion at all, just cold hard time clocked in! I know my friendship totally has an hourly rate!

Buy shares in Apple and get an INTP BFF free!

You remind me of these dads who leave their families because this whole thing is just no fun anymore, they actually have to commit and go beyond a "Me, me, me!" attitude. Grow up.
 

sculpting

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the couple of INFJs I have known have been very private and careful about personal space and boundaries. They HATE people coming over unannounced. They use Fe differently from an Fe dom. If you are part of thier selected family then will offer advice and consultation. They seem to do it carefully and selectedly and be very good at recognizing my boundaries while simulataneously calling me on my shit.

I dunno, just what I have seen. Nothing like the dom Fes or the tert Fes.
 

jenocyde

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Yeah Amargith pretty much summed up my approach to relationships. It involves giving everyone a lot of space to breathe because one of the things I want out of a relationship, any relationship, is to be able to leave whenever I damn well please.

I have had so many Fe using friends (No, not one. This is a repeat incident.) who would just turn up at my house unannounced as if this was totally okay because we're friends who lived in the same neighbourhood. Even after I told them I was uncomfortable with it and added that they should simply call first if they were coming over. This didn't work either. They would call and when I would fail to answer (could be something as simple as I was walking the dog and left me phone at home) they would come over anyway!

They always seemed to see this as an indication of how strong they thought our friendship was but I really resented being intruded upon so often and with such little care about MY feelings regarding the whole thing. I was then accused of being selfish when I stopped answering their phone calls just because I did NOT want to see them every day, all the time.

Not sure if this is Fe... I have an ENFP friend who does shit like that constantly. I would never dream of stopping by unannounced.
 

Lauren Ashley

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People coming over uninvited and taking food from your fridge don't respect boundaries. Those people are jerks and leeches, and you are better off without them. Most healthy, decent Fe people would be horrified at the sheer rudeness and breech of protocol.

It's unfortunate that your primary example of Fe is from a horribly unhealthy user. It has skewed your expectations to the point where you consider unacceptable behavior to be exemplary for Fe, instead of an exception that should be avoided.

Lately I've grown tired of stating the obvious. But, yes.
 

Tiny Army

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You remind me of these dads who leave their families because this whole thing is just no fun anymore, they actually have to commit and go beyond a "Me, me, me!" attitude. Grow up.

Did the mom poke holes in the condoms? Skip her birth control on purpose? Refused to get an abortion despite financial concerns? Leaving your family because "it's no fun anymore" =/= having a family dropped in your lap without your consent. If someone leaves a baby in a basket on your doorstep do you now HAVE to take care of it? Is calling social services a "Me, me, me!" attitude? You are repeatedly failing to recognise that these community standards of friendship mean squat. Friendship is a personal thing to me. It is a sharing of ideas and a mutual respect for one another's boundaries. Breaking down those boundaries isn't intimacy to me. It is invasion.

Observe all the factors involved before making an irrelevant analogy. Oh wait! You can't do that as soon as you're presented with a new situation. You're an Ni dom! Analogies that are only relevant to you are how you roll!

I also think it's unfair to say that every Fe user I have ever met in my entire life was unhealthy. I have simply noticed a pattern of behaviour that they seem to think is completely normal but that I find entirely repulsive. This being the continued imposition of their personal standards onto me and my life.
 

Udog

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Lately I've grown tired of stating the obvious. But, yes.

Heh. In this thread I have stated the obvious in favor of both Fi and Fe. Does this make me a glutton for punishment as well? Or just a glutton for screaming into voids? :shock:
 

Lauren Ashley

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Heh. In this thread I have stated the obvious in favor of both Fi and Fe. Does this make me a glutton for punishment as well? Or just a glutton for screaming into voids? :shock:

Both. And a pacifist. Got 9? :D
 
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