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  1. #51
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    People actually expect this level of investment?

    I'm very uncomfortable making offers, and I don't like the idea of pushing to stay connected to people in the face of negative or absent feedback.

    The more I talk to you, the more disgusted I am with your expectations. I really hope everyone isn't like you, or I'm just going to forsake people altogether.

    I cannot BELIEVE the kind of entitlement some people feel. The nerve!
    ...So. Would you like to hang up your INFJ hat now? Because INFJs are all about intuiting other's unspoken needs and obliging them, to a certain extent.

  2. #52
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    I had a true friend who taught me how to be a friend. That's all I can say. And to say I don't think this is a an Fe/Fi thing.
    You're right. It isn't.

    It's a perspective thing. Personal truths are very much tied up in this kind of thing.

    Perhaps... this is why close friends are so rare. Because most people only align on the surface, but have all these unspoken needs. And unfortunately, not everyone has the same unspoken needs, so they always misinterpret one another's actions according to the needs and perspectives they think should be obvious to others.

    The ones that you "click" with... have similar or complementary unspoken needs.

    I guess I can say that this is true for you and Lightyear, because it's a part of how you perceive friendship... but I don't think it's true for everyone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    ...So. Would you like to hang up your INFJ hat now? Because INFJs are all about intuiting other's unspoken needs and obliging them, to a certain extent.
    Ah... not really.

    Because this is something I try to do... but only within certain limits. I won't oblige anything that I'm uncomfortable with, or that seems unreasonable to me. I'm usually very good at picking up on hints others didn't even know they were giving.

    I'm just disgusted that someone would have the nerve to... expect what she said she expected. To think of them as less of a friend for not taking a proactive approach. Without even bothering to find out why, and there might have been a good reason... such as the one heart dismissed earlier. That whole hardline, "This is right and kind and this is wrong and selfish, there are no excuses!" approach.

  3. #53
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    I've always conflicted with people who hold holidays and tradition important. If I had a SO on valentine's day I'd say "happy valentine's day, I love you." Then probably do something for her or something with her, like go out to her favorite restaurant or something like that. If someone told me what to buy them I wouldn't see the value in that... it's like "alright alright just buy me this so I won't get pissed off at you. To show that you care I need physical things, not just your word".
    Oh, I was just using that as a random example. Not that candies and flowers are what Fe expects on V-day (at least not me; it would be nice, but it's not a neccessity). I think Fe just wants you to show, in some way (any way!), that you care. It could be simple, personal, idiotic, whatever. But it needs to be expressed.

    I think FPs and FJs get along when the FP's actions are tweaked toward what the FJ expects, and this happening naturally aids the process.
    Hmmm. I've been in friendships/relationships with FPs where it worked in the reverse. But I think it is a bit different for IxFJs because their Fe is secondary.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Without even bothering to find out why, and there might have been a good reason... such as the one heart dismissed earlier.
    I didn't dismiss it, I said if she's that neurotic about being around people with injuries (like just having a cast on a foot) she needs serious therapy. What would she do if someone who depended on her needed her help while injured? What if someone had their foot taken off by a circular saw and she was the only one around? Would she run away and let them die? How could an adult get that far into life with such a serious neurotic fear? Everyone has someone get injured around them at some point and they have to deal with it. It's part of being a member of the human race. If that were the case, the INFP needs to be in therapy and yes, they do need to tell their close friends and family about their disability.

  5. #55
    Senior Member alcea rosea's Avatar
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    To the OP:

    You just might see the friendship differently.
    She might show you appreciation the way you don't understand it.
    You might expect things/behavior from her that she doesn't reagard as important.

    It might be due to misunderstanding, the whole thing?

  6. #56
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    I'm just disgusted that someone would have the nerve to... expect what she said she expected. To think of them as less of a friend for not taking a proactive approach.
    Welcome to the world of friendship.

    Wikipedia (and wikipedia is clearly the end all, be all) says this about friendship:

    Quote Originally Posted by Wikipedia
    Friendship is co-operative and supportive behavior between two or more people. In this sense, the term connotes a relationship which involves mutual knowledge, esteem, and affection and respect along with a degree of rendering service to friends in times of need or crisis. Friends will welcome each other's company and exhibit loyalty towards each other, often to the point of altruism. Their tastes will usually be similar and may converge, and they will share enjoyable activities. They will also engage in mutually helping behavior, such as exchange of advice and the sharing of hardship. A friend is someone who may often demonstrate reciprocating and reflective behaviors.

  7. #57
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    I didn't dismiss it, I said if she's that neurotic about being around people with injuries (like just having a cast on a foot) she needs serious therapy. What would she do if someone who depended on her needed her help while injured? What if someone had their foot taken off by a circular saw and she was the only one around? Would she run away and let them die? How could an adult get that far into life with such a serious neurotic fear? Everyone has someone get injured around them at some point and they have to deal with it. It's part of being a member of the human race.
    Technically, they can. The person could reasonably have a fear that being around an injured or ill person could be dangerous. Which is reasonable, because there's a chance that whatever injured them is still around, or that you could catch a disease from them.

    And you have no business telling me what being human is all about, and what's neurotic. Don't you dare talk down to me like that.

  8. #58
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    Oh, I was just using that as a random example. Not that candies and flowers are what Fe expects on V-day (at least not me; it would be nice, but it's not a neccessity). I think Fe just wants you to show, in some way (any way!), that you care. It could be simple, personal, idiotic, whatever. But it needs to be expressed.
    Yeah. Was just adding to the point that you Fe users need to realize that Fi users will have a subjective view on how they should treat someone.

    Hmmm. I've been in friendships/relationships with FPs where it worked in the reverse. But I think it is a bit different for IxFJs because their Fe is secondary.
    Interesting. I dunno. The two would need to adjust to each other! Now that I think about it my INFJ best friend did this with me, since you INFJs adjust to people by picking up on their needs. Over the years he's gotten more up front with me, adjusted to my humor, gotten more blunt, etc. It's good. I've also adjusted to his needs too.

    Agreed on IXFJ's Fe being second and effecting it.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Technically, they can. The person could reasonably have a fear that being around an injured or ill person could be dangerous. Which is reasonable, because there's a chance that whatever injured them is still around, or that you could catch a disease from them.

    And you have no business telling me what being human is all about, and what's neurotic. Don't you dare talk down to me like that.
    A woman laying in a bed with cast on her foot is a very different senario than being out on the open plains after someone has been mauled or being in a plague house.

    It's a neurotic fear. It's not a rational way for a human being to go through life. A person with a fear like this needs help or else life is going to be very, very hard for them.

    You're twisting my words a bit there. It's a fact that part of being a member of the human race is interdependence. We may not like it, but it is there. When we get injured we have to rely on others for help when others are injured we have to pitch in and help.

    Edit: Almost everyone is uncomfortable visiting someone they care about who is sick or in pain--they feel they don't know what to say or how to act, etc--- but they put their own discomfort aside, their own fears aside and they do what they have to do. It's just part of life.

  10. #60
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    Welcome to the world of friendship.

    Wikipedia (and wikipedia is clearly the end all, be all) says this about friendship:
    Ah.

    Well... umm... I hate to say this, but I'm really only willing to offer people words. I'll send them a card or something without even being asked, no problem. But I'm not big on... crisis stuff and being there. When a crisis is going on, I'd rather not be there. It's too much for me to be around that, I'd get overwhelmed.

    Why can't people just see each other when they're in GOOD health and can entertain each other adequately? What's with all this crisis stuff and practical help?

    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    we have to pitch in and help.
    Not really. And no one can make me. That's someone else's responsibility, specifically that of a nurse or doctor that works in a hospital. I won't accept a responsibility I didn't take on.

    You may think it's irrational, but there are more scenarios in which it would be valid than not.

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