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  1. #191
    Seriously Delirious Udog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Necaberint View Post
    Fe, that has to do with what others want.
    That's not quite what Fe is. Fe focuses on how others express their values. As such, it requires people to actually express those values, or it can feel neglected and isolated.

  2. #192
    Senior Member Tiny Army's Avatar
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    Re: Lightyear and Tiltyred's posts.
    Please do illuminate me as to what these "unspoken rules of friendship" are? Did the government circulate a checklist for what friendship means? Did God come down from the sky and tell you exactly what friendship means?

    These are YOUR standards of friendship not the world's. When I broke my leg I wanted people to come visit me and spend time with me. My INTP friend on the other hand HATES to be visited when she's sick. When she's already feeling crabby people make her feel crabbier. Is it not therefore fair for her to assume that one is a terrible friend for dropping in and bugging people when they're sick?

    Nobody knows the other person's standards of friendship until they are explicitly stated and I deeply resent the implication that someone else's standards of friendship are somehow innately better or more valid than mine.

    Also:
    Quote Originally Posted by Lightyear View Post
    Healthy Fe can be like that but unhealthy Fe can be very manipulative, the person doing you a favour just to tell you later: "I did this, this and this for you, if you would be as good a friend you would do that for me..."
    Isn't that exactly what you are doing in this thread?! You may not be saying it to the person directly at hand but you're still declaring that if your Fi using compatriots were as good friends as you they would return all the favours you have done for them.
    Anger is also a feeling.

  3. #193
    rawr Costrin's Avatar
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    WHY CAN'T WE ALL JUST BE FWIENDS?!?!

    Oh wait.... because we don't agree on what that means... right.

    "All humour has a foundation of truth."
    - Costrin

  4. #194
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiny Army View Post
    Re: Lightyear and Tiltyred's posts.
    Please do illuminate me as to what these "unspoken rules of friendship" are? Did the government circulate a checklist for what friendship means? Did God come down from the sky and tell you exactly what friendship means?

    These are YOUR standards of friendship not the world's. When I broke my leg I wanted people to come visit me and spend time with me. My INTP friend on the other hand HATES to be visited when she's sick. When she's already feeling crabby people make her feel crabbier. Is it not therefore fair for her to assume that one is a terrible friend for dropping in and bugging people when they're sick?

    Nobody knows the other person's standards of friendship until they are explicitly stated and I deeply resent the implication that someone else's standards of friendship are somehow innately better or more valid than mine.

    Also:

    Isn't that exactly what you are doing in this thread?! You may not be saying it to the person directly at hand but you're still declaring that if your Fi using compatriots were as good friends as you they would return all the favours you have done for them.
    Those are my standards of friendship, exactly. I require that you make some effort to meet them if you want to be my friend. If you don't want to be my friend, peace and love just the same and that's fine, too, but life is short and I'd rather not try to reform you; I'd rather move on. Being my friend means that if I am in the hospital you think of me and you ask me what I might want. Like, my mother was in the hospital and I sent flowers and I called her once to ask her if she wanted me to call her every day or twice a day or whether she felt more that she needed to rest, and she said she needed to rest and not to call. You have conversations, you see, and you learn what each other needs and wants.

    But it is definitely easier if you can be with people who recognize basic etiquette and that's really, I think, what Lightyear's talking about. Friends remember your birthday, call and/or visit when you're sick, listen to your love life concerns, reciprocate your invitations, yeah, I could go on and on about what I think a friendship should be. I have a need to make things as close to ideal as possible and I surely have a right to seek my own happiness. If you (the general "you") is not able to make me happy, it's best for the both of us that I move on.

    I'm saying, it astounded me when I realized that other people do not have the same expectations that I take for granted, and I learned to be a little more flexible. But for me, I know my few friends' favorite colors, flowers, food, how they drink their coffee, Pepsi or Coke and how much ice, what their favorite food is, I make a concerted effort to know everything I can about what makes them happy, and then to the extent I am able, I try to promote their happiness. I pay very close attention to their feeling states. And sometimes I flake out and forget birthdays, it happened just last month, but when I caught it, I called my friend and apologized for forgetting his birthday and sent him a gift.

    You might not want to work that hard, and that's fine. But "love me while I ignore you even while you're sick" does not constitute a friend, TO ME. And yeah, I have a purpose on the face of the earth and a right to my needs. Maybe you would find it hard to be friends with me in real life (although I tend to think not, actually, remembering how supportive you can be), but I have a right to want what I want and try to get it. I think we all should. "No expectations" has zero appeal to me. Expectations are negotiable but I'm not going to say I don't have them when I do.

    I'm sorry to go on so long but it has to do with communicating, that's all. I had a friend who constantly bought me gifts. In return (I thought), I cooked for him. He would also sometimes ask me to cook for his friends and family, and I would oblige. This was a huge deal to me because I am a very good cook but I freakin' hate it. If I cook for you, I seriously love you, that is a big gift . He thought I enjoyed it. One day he blew up at me because he said he had given me all these gifts and I never reciprocated and I could not have been more stunned. I brought up all the dinners I'd cooked. He was stunned in return.

    You have to talk, and to talk, you have to be in touch, and to be in touch, you have to exchange at least phone calls.

    I know other people think differently and that's fine, I'm just saying, it's also a valid notion to think that love means doing something, rather than just sitting around thinking to yourself that you love me or you are my friend and in fact doing nothing that promotes my happiness, whether that means dropping by often or whether that means make sure you call before you come; whether that means don't call me on the phone because I hate the phone, or call me at least once a week. But at the very least IMO you have to pay attention.

  5. #195
    Senior Member BlahBlahNounBlah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    Those are my standards of friendship, exactly. I require that you make some effort to meet them if you want to be my friend. If you don't want to be my friend, peace and love just the same and that's fine, too, but life is short and I'd rather not try to reform you; I'd rather move on. Being my friend means that if I am in the hospital you think of me and you ask me what I might want. Like, my mother was in the hospital and I sent flowers and I called her once to ask her if she wanted me to call her every day or twice a day or whether she felt more that she needed to rest, and she said she needed to rest and not to call. You have conversations, you see, and you learn what each other needs and wants.

    But it is definitely easier if you can be with people who recognize basic etiquette and that's really, I think, what Lightyear's talking about. Friends remember your birthday, call and/or visit when you're sick, listen to your love life concerns, reciprocate your invitations, yeah, I could go on and on about what I think a friendship should be. I have a need to make things as close to ideal as possible and I surely have a right to seek my own happiness. If you (the general "you") is not able to make me happy, it's best for the both of us that I move on.

    I'm saying, it astounded me when I realized that other people do not have the same expectations that I take for granted, and I learned to be a little more flexible. But for me, I know my few friends' favorite colors, flowers, food, how they drink their coffee, Pepsi or Coke and how much ice, what their favorite food is, I make a concerted effort to know everything I can about what makes them happy, and then to the extent I am able, I try to promote their happiness. I pay very close attention to their feeling states. And sometimes I flake out and forget birthdays, it happened just last month, but when I caught it, I called my friend and apologized for forgetting his birthday and sent him a gift.

    You might not want to work that hard, and that's fine. But "love me while I ignore you even while you're sick" does not constitute a friend, TO ME. And yeah, I have a purpose on the face of the earth and a right to my needs. Maybe you would find it hard to be friends with me in real life (although I tend to think not, actually, remembering how supportive you can be), but I have a right to want what I want and try to get it. I think we all should. "No expectations" has zero appeal to me. Expectations are negotiable but I'm not going to say I don't have them when I do.

    I'm sorry to go on so long but it has to do with communicating, that's all. I had a friend who constantly bought me gifts. In return (I thought), I cooked for him. He would also sometimes ask me to cook for his friends and family, and I would oblige. This was a huge deal to me because I am a very good cook but I freakin' hate it. If I cook for you, I seriously love you, that is a big gift . He thought I enjoyed it. One day he blew up at me because he said he had given me all these gifts and I never reciprocated and I could not have been more stunned. I brought up all the dinners I'd cooked. He was stunned in return.

    You have to talk, and to talk, you have to be in touch, and to be in touch, you have to exchange at least phone calls.

    I know other people think differently and that's fine, I'm just saying, it's also a valid notion to think that love means doing something, rather than just sitting around thinking to yourself that you love me or you are my friend and in fact doing nothing that promotes my happiness, whether that means dropping by often or whether that means make sure you call before you come; whether that means don't call me on the phone because I hate the phone, or call me at least once a week. But at the very least IMO you have to pay attention.


    *slow clap becoming thunderous applause*



  6. #196
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    ...it has to do with communicating, that's all.
    Yes, that's all. But nothing else in your post indicates you really believe that though.

  7. #197
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    blush blush blush thanks for that

  8. #198
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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  9. #199
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Yes, that's all. But nothing else in your thread indicates you really believe that though.
    *shrug* I've got nothing to prove to you.

  10. #200
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    ^ LOL, I sent hugs above to you specifically, thinking you were responding with "blushes of embarrassment" instead of "blushes of adulation" and had understood the message in my post, hilarious.

    But I'm gracious enough to leave them, even though you have shrugged me off.

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