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  1. #111
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    My point is, for you it might be easy to remember to send a mail or call, even elementary as such. It's not that way for everyone. Each person has their own way to show someone they care. And they'll often do it in the way that comes most natural to them, not the one the other person expects or considers normal.
    Well, for lack of a better word, duh. But I don't see how this relates to the OP, still. The friend in the OP did nothing, as far as we know. Unless doing nothing is what comes most natural to them...

    EDIT: Are you referring to this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    I have plenty of "fun," with my friends, but I would think that anyone considering me as a friend wouldn't see it as a burden to give me a call or reply to an email, if I was home sick.
    If so, that was just an example. I'm not going to condemn someone for coming to visit instead of sending an email.

  2. #112
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Agreed. I merely responded to your statement to Athenian
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  3. #113
    Senior Member Lightyear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post

    I am going to go to bat for Athenian on this one. My father has such a strong reaction to certain hospital-type situations that he will literally pass out - it's called vasovagal syncope, and it only "happens" during these types of crises. Indeed some people do have a real challenging time processing the emotional components associated with illness.


    Of course there are exceptions but in general I think it's a bit of a weak excuse. When I broke my foot I actually wore this rather smashing orthopaedic boot which was very interesting to look at and made me feel like Robocop or the 6-Million Dollar Man; so no blood or gore or traumatic sights there.

    I also don't like whining or needlessly being whined at so if someone visits me while I am sick you can be sure that I would not just unload the whole pain of the world and beyond upon him, I would acutally try to uplift the person, what's the point of everyone feeling sad with me unless there is a real reason (because of death of a close relative, sudden news of a chronic illness or something like that)?

  4. #114
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightyear View Post
    Of course there are exceptions but in general I think it's a bit of a weak excuse.
    Trust me, it's a complicated situation with a mother having a medical procedure done and a father who has passed out and is in the emergency ward!

    Blood and gore not necessary!

    I am not trying to make excuses for your friend, I am simply trying to illuminate the subject 360 degrees.

  5. #115
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    I haven't read through the whole thread so if someone's already said this then I guess you're hearing it again.

    I don't believe this is about Fe/Fi, each function has their own unique snowflake way of being selfish. Heart's statements closely match my opinion on the matter.

    To the situation at hand, I do sympathize with lightyear. It differs person to person, but if I'm in the hospital sick or even at home severely sick I would at least like to get the offer from a person I consider a friend to come and visit (if they're within my immediate area). It's not obligation to me but part of being a friend and showing how much I care. Am I reading correctly? Would most people who've answered in this thread not visit a hospitalized friend? If there's any confusion, it seems a fairly simple matter of asking "Would you like for me to visit you?" I know that some people don't like to be visited while they're sick so it seems like just asking would clear up any doubts. These attitudes are surprising to me, but I've been here long enough to know better.

    My mother was hospitalized for 6 weeks and in a rehabilitation facility for three months. Many of her church friends came to visit her during that period of time. I don't care if it was out of a sense of obligation or not because their presence and kind words encouraged her and lifted her spirits during a very dangerous period. I'm convinced knowing that she was cared for gave her the will to keep fighting and survive. There was a time when she said she didn't want any visitors and we told them that and no one was offended. Yes, you can know that your friends care by virtue of them being your friends, but sometimes you need that physical hand on your shoulder or see that smile. Having someone's physical presence with you can make a world of difference.

    When simple gestures of support are reduced to rote social obligation then what kind of responsibility do you all think you have towards your friends and vice versa? I'm not seeing any unspoken rules lightyear is demanding from her friend. I'm under the impression friends do things like this for friends, no one's keeping count or having a secret list of rules and violations, it's just basic showing you care.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
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  6. #116
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    I haven't read through the whole thread so if someone's already said this then I guess you're hearing it again.

    I don't believe this is about Fe/Fi, each function has their own unique snowflake way of being selfish. Heart's statements closely match my opinion on the matter.

    To the situation at hand, I do sympathize with lightyear. It differs person to person, but if I'm in the hospital sick or even at home severely sick I would at least like to get the offer from a person I consider a friend to come and visit (if they're within my immediate area). It's not obligation to me but part of being a friend and showing how much I care. Am I reading correctly? Would most people who've answered in this thread not visit a hospitalized friend? If there's any confusion, it seems a fairly simple matter of asking "Would you like for me to visit you?" I know that some people don't like to be visited while they're sick so it seems like just asking would clear up any doubts. These attitudes are surprising to me, but I've been here long enough to know better.

    My mother was hospitalized for 6 weeks and in a rehabilitation facility for three months. Many of her church friends came to visit her during that period of time. I don't care if it was out of a sense of obligation or not because their presence and kind words encouraged her and lifted her spirits during a very dangerous period. I'm convinced knowing that she was cared for gave her the will to keep fighting and survive. There was a time when she said she didn't want any visitors and we told them that and no one was offended. Yes, you can know that your friends care by virtue of them being your friends, but sometimes you need that physical hand on your shoulder or see that smile. Having someone's physical presence with you can make a world of difference.

    When simple gestures of support are reduced to rote social obligation then what kind ofresponsibility do you all think you have towards your friends and vice versa? I'm not seeing any unspoken rules lightyear is demanding from her friend. I'm under the impression friends do things like this for friends, no one's keeping count or having a secret list of rules and violations, it's just basic showing you care.
    Well said, protean. Agreed 100 percent.

  7. #117
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    I have plenty of "fun," with my friends, but I would think that anyone considering me as a friend wouldn't see it as a burden to give me a call or reply to an email, if I was home sick. This isn't difficult in the least, and I would do the same for them if they were in that situation. If you consider this heaviness, I suggest you get off your computer and take a peek at the real world outside of the internet.
    Now THAT I would do. I would also send a card.

    I just wouldn't offer to go visit them in person or help them out with anything practical, because quite honestly I'd prefer not to. If they asked me, though, I might get off my lazy arse and do it anyway. But I'm not the kind to take on responsibilities if I don't have to. Especially not if it's something I'm uncomfortable with in the first place.

    There's a huge difference between expecting to someone to offer their presence or service without being asked, and expecting them to call or reply to an e-mail.

    Don't talk like I haven't seen the real world, either. And yes, I do think that's "heaviness," and the real world is often rife with it. That's one of the reasons I don't like or appreciate it.

  8. #118
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Now THAT I would do. I would also send a card.

    I just wouldn't offer to go visit them in person or help them out with anything practical, because quite honestly I'd prefer not to. If they asked me, though, I might get off my lazy arse and do it anyway. But I'm not the kind to take on responsibilities if I don't have to. Especially not if it's something I'm uncomfortable with in the first place.

    There's a huge difference between expecting to someone to offer their presence or service without being asked, and expecting them to call or reply to an e-mail.
    Well, I think if the friend had replied to the email or called and said she felt uncomfortable visiting, Lightyear would have understood. I could be wrong but I think it was the lack of consideration, not so much the lack of tangible help, that was the trigger for the OP.

  9. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Now THAT I would do. I would also send a card.

    I just wouldn't offer to go visit them in person or help them out with anything practical, because quite honestly I'd prefer not to. If they asked me, though, I might get off my lazy arse and do it anyway. But I'm not the kind to take on responsibilities if I don't have to. Especially not if it's something I'm uncomfortable with in the first place.

    There's a huge difference between expecting to someone to offer their presence or service without being asked, and expecting them to call or reply to an e-mail.

  10. #120
    Senior Member professor goodstain's Avatar
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    imo. Fi and selfishness are only related when an egotistical observer/Fi recipient makes a poor judgement on Fi influenced actions and inactions generated from Fi dominant/feeder/retrograde individual. So, this "selfishness" is kinda like our US currency in a way. We'll call it "inflated selfishness perception biproxy" Thus the judgement of selfishness is then (almost immediatly) easily expanded to label the Fi preference carrier as a whole and not just isolated actions/inactions. Quite obtuse. From a social standpoint, this obtuse judgement of selfishness tagged on an Fi action/inaction carrier is usually always generated from an Fe dominant/feeder/retrograde carrier. After all. What motive is behind the very idea of Fi and (selfishness)? Could the motive be Se? Or perhaps Ne? Maybe Ni and Si or Te? i'm leaving Ti/Fi out because it's the "motive" behind my conclusion that Fe and Fi are the most polar toward each other (have the least overlap) of any dominant/feeder/retrograde functions.
    Last edited by professor goodstain; 07-05-2009 at 04:11 PM.
    everyone uses every function about evenly. take NE for example. if there are those who don't use it much, then why are there such massive amounts of people constantly flowing through Wallmart with 20 items or less?

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