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  1. #21
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    Yes, it is the Fe doing the giving. Not that all those with Fe dom or aux will give, and Fi dom or aux won't give...
    Yeah I see what you mean here.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by fill View Post
    This is quite true. I think I-- and maybe INFJs in general-- express my ability to work too much, so when I'm called upon to help somebody, it's for work, not a friendly conversation.
    Yes. I'm a total workaholic as well. I've worked in the social service sector for several years. I enjoy watching people achieve their goals and helping all sorts of people. Idealism is a wonderful motivator, but you can burn out if you give too much. I'd hate too see you crash from an over load. There is such a thing as too much giving. There are consequences for putting yourself last. You have to remember those in the process. Martyrdom is a bad road and I hope you never have to travel down it.

    As for Fe versus Fi. I totally see what you're talking about. It's worth pointing out. I'm still learning the functions and the details. Thanks for the information.

  3. #23
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fill View Post
    I'm no person that goes out into the world and yells, "I can help anyone for free!" but if I see a person in need, I'd feel worthless if I didn't at least offer my assistance. I suppose I'm still radically introverted, as I wouldn't go so far to draw a huge amount of attention to myself just to help someone, yet I still see things and people in the world that could be great, and it kills me to see them stay the way they are. Can't somebody see me the same way?
    I believe part (by no means all, but part) of your/INFJs' problem on this score is your tendency to project your own empathy onto others: You assume that others are as cognizant of and attentive to your state and your needs as you are of theirs. When they fail to reciprocate your care and consideration, you then leap to the conclusion that they are unwilling to help you. This need not be the case; it may simply be that your assumption is not met.

    Understand that some (if not most) people are to some degree oblivious to the feelings and needs of other people; the fact that someone could use help does not jump out at everyone like it does at you. This does not necessarily mean that they are not generous with their time and resources. Someone might be perfectly willing to help you out with something, but simply fail to realize that you would appreciate their help.

    You might protest that no one could misread body language as strong as what you have exhibited on occasions when you really required the help. But here another incidence of projection, this time on the part of the oblivious individual, may come into play: Oblivious people tend to be direct in asking for help (to the point where it may come across to you sensitive soul as demanding) and to assume that others work the same way. When in doubt, they may therefore seek to ascertain the need for their help by asking you directly, and when they do so, they will take the words of your answer at face value. Give a wishy-washy response leaning toward "no, I can do without, thanks" while relying on your body language and tone of voice to communicate "god yes!", and your oblivious would-be helper may proceed on his way, genuinely believing you to prefer to do without.

    Therefore: Learn to communicate more directly (to the point where you feel that you are being uncomfortably blunt), and you will uncover the generosity of the oblivious. Which can be considerable - after all, we have all these resources to spare.

    Edit: When I first pressed reply, my intention was actually just to post the link to this thread of mine: Too nice for your own good

  4. #24
    "Everything in its place" fill's Avatar
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    "You assume that others are as cognizant of and attentive to your state and your needs as you are of theirs. When they fail to reciprocate your care and consideration, you then leap to the conclusion that they are unwilling to help you. This need not be the case; it may simply be that your assumption is not met."

    That's an interesting point. I think what might be a big problem is that I am in fact an introvert; therefore, I prefer to work 'behind the scenes' and I don't exactly let the receiver of my help see what I'm doing. The Fe function is active, but the person I'm helping would notice my 'affection' more if I were to help them right in front of them.

    "Learn to communicate more directly (to the point where you feel that you are being uncomfortably blunt), and you will uncover the generosity of the oblivious."

    That's a great piece of advice, but do any other INFJs here find absolutely exhausting to do so? If I communicate too directly, I feel as if I'm trying to hard to, well, try. It sort of defeats the purpose for me.
    "Poor bastard. Wait 'till he sees the bats. "
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  5. #25
    movin melodies kiddykat's Avatar
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    Fill, I totally understand your concerns.. How I see it? Some people don't have that capacity to? Either due to their own insecurities? Lack of confidence or happiness to put themselves out there? Or maybe that is just their personality? I didn't read through all the replies, but that is what I honestly see..

    If we're secure with ourselves, the more likely we are able to express ourselves/help others in the most extraordinary ways. It's when we're bound by 'fear' and 'judgment' when we recoil, and pent up. Unhealthy.

    Just be 'you,' and that should be good nuff!

  6. #26
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fill View Post
    That's an interesting point. I think what might be a big problem is that I am in fact an introvert; therefore, I prefer to work 'behind the scenes' and I don't exactly let the receiver of my help see what I'm doing. The Fe function is active, but the person I'm helping would notice my 'affection' more if I were to help them right in front of them.
    Let me get this straight; you expect people to reciprocate help they are not even aware that they've been given?

    ... You gotta give us a fighting chance!

    That's a great piece of advice, but do any other INFJs here find absolutely exhausting to do so? If I communicate too directly, I feel as if I'm trying to hard to, well, try. It sort of defeats the purpose for me.
    Heh, I thought about stating my advice in the subjunctive tense in hopeless acknowledgment of the mortification it causes you INFJs to communicate your needs directly, but I opted for neutral/open-ended in order to be less J.

  7. #27
    "Everything in its place" fill's Avatar
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    "Let me get this straight; you expect people to reciprocate help they are not even aware that they've been given? "

    No, no, you misunderstand me; that would be ridiculous. I'm saying I don't "perform" my help, I simply do it, preferably alone. I don't want people to acknowledge help that they don't know they have been given, I want people to realize the effect I've had on their lives, which in some cases tends to be a deep one since I get so involved with them.

    "Heh, I thought about stating my advice in the subjunctive tense in hopeless acknowledgment of the mortification it causes you INFJs to communicate your needs directly, but I opted for neutral/open-ended in order to be less J. "

    Hahaha, I can see where being so indirect can be frustrating to many. But I think that's how us INFJs find the people we become quite attached to: it just works/happens. Hah, it's like we get involved in this idea that we can form a relationship with somebody without really saying anything. I've found I really can connect with people that just "get it" in this way. Maybe we watch too much TV.

    Here's an example: my ENFP friend is extremely intuitive and perceiving. I've had classes with him, and if the teacher says something that I would probably contort into a sexual joke, I can literally look at him, and we'll both bust out laughing.
    "Poor bastard. Wait 'till he sees the bats. "
    enneagram - 7/5/3

  8. #28
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fill View Post
    No, no, you misunderstand me; that would be ridiculous. I'm saying I don't "perform" my help, I simply do it, preferably alone. I don't want people to acknowledge help that they don't know they have been given, I want people to realize the effect I've had on their lives, which in some cases tends to be a deep one since I get so involved with them.
    Okay, I need you to spell out for me what kind of help we're talking about here!

    ... If it wouldn't be too much trouble, I mean. ()

    Oh, and for the record, I do have a close friend who is INFJ (Fisherking)!

  9. #29
    "Everything in its place" fill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Economica View Post
    Okay, I need you to spell out for me what kind of help we're talking about here!
    Simply said: putting others before yourself.
    "Poor bastard. Wait 'till he sees the bats. "
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  10. #30
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    From what might be "the other side" of this issue, my ENFJ friend does all sorts of "favors" that I don't want him to do and seems to expect grandiose reciprocation from me in return. I'm a relatively independent person, and that bothers him. I can't help that he feels that way.

    I've got no problem reciprocating favors, but to expect what he does from me is just plain ridiculous.


    When one gives in a way that the other party cannot receive, can it really be called giving?

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