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  1. #31
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    I think it's a little silly that you're so offended by this. People only stereotype like that as a joke. The whole system is a bit of a joke, honestly... no one really expects it to apply perfectly to individuals. We're usually discussing archetypes, not people. The whole point of type is to choose which caricature you're more comfortable being associated with, not to accurately convey individual traits. That comes through in other ways.

    For instance, if someone says, "INFJs are martyrs," that doesn't automatically translate to "Athenian200 is a martyr," in my mind. You can say something about an archetype without discussing individuals that happen to identify themselves with a particular type.

    It shouldn't be necessary to qualify every quip about NTs lacking emotional awareness with a disclaimer that some NTs have a capacity for sensitivity and compassion, in other words. But with all these people getting mad about every little stereotype and taking it personally, I guess I'll have to put disclaimers on EVERYTHING. *sigh*
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  2. #32
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    We hear this shit all the time about every type, subtype, function, etc. No big deal really. Most of the time it is just for humour-related purposes. That was so with my sarcastic remark in the annoying Introvert traits thread:
    I came here to discuss how NTs are heartless pricks, SJs are boring as fuck, which types likes to take it up the ass the most - in other words, serious intelligent dicussions regarding personality types. I did NOT come here to be insulted!

  3. #33
    mountain surfing nomadic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneWithSoul View Post
    Why does everyone stereotype NFs as being peaceful, nature loving, happy, cuddly little souls?

    MBTI is a matter of preference and is so general, that it was probably never meant to be used so drastically and specifically as we use it here. We assume so much, and remember so little about what MBTI really is. It's not WHAT you do..but HOW and WHY you do it. You can have an NF in the army..you can have an SP Politician..you can have an NT Garbage man..or an SJ rock star. NFs do what they of love and inspiration...whether it be leading peace rallies, saving the rainforest, killing enemies in battle, or in the confines of a cubicle in a large corporation.

    Stop stereotyping NFs, everybody! It's about individual and less about 'oh, he's this type so he must be like this, or he must have a job in this'. No, that's all wrong and you're assuming so much it just makes you look arrogant.

    I have to say..this forum, being here, and interacting has kind of ruined my outlook and intelligence of Myers Briggs. It's sort of taking it too far, in general..this isn't really what personality types should have ended up like. But that doesn't matter, we're here and we do learn a lot of other things. But please, can we try not to stereotype other types often as we do, and relax and realize it's more about the individual and that we're all insane?

    -OWS
    I think its interesting how a lot of people stereotypes and puts each other in a box.

    People who don't really understand what stereotyping is except for some vague article they read on African American, Asian American etc... stereotyping (i.e. they should behave as a horny little china doll for everyone to screw) etc... don't really fully understand how damaging it can be in the long term or in adolescence.

  4. #34
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Stereotyping is assuming that a general property of the group applies to every individual member of the group.

    That's not what we do here. We describe the group itself, and if you don't follow any of the trends associated with that group, we'll put you in a different group.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  5. #35
    Senior Member Scott N Denver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneWithSoul View Post
    Why does everyone stereotype NFs as being peaceful, nature loving, happy, cuddly little souls?
    -OWS
    Amazingly dumb question: Who does that now? Honestly, with all the books I've read, training I've been to, discussions I've been involved in, etc, I don't think that I have EVER actually heard anyone say that! Yes, type descriptions of NFP's often talk about "personal values "being "values-driven", and other words, but those seem to me to be attempts to describe the Fi function, and perhaps its Ne expressions.

    One can look at large pools of people and make statistical statements, and I wouldn't considering that stereotyping. "Most___ tend to __" is VERY different from "ALL ___ do ___." The correlations between MBTI type and careers comes to mind first for me. For example, the NT and TJ predisposition to become engineers or scientists, the INF tendency to become psychotherapists and the like, ENF's in things like PR and HR, these are trends that can be seen in large groups of people! To give a personal example, I have worked as both a "research scientist" [laser physics], and as a "research engineer". As mentioned above, science is very NT in character [theory NTP, experiment, NTJ], and engineering very TJ. Having spent 4 years in college physics, 7 years in graduate level physics and engineering, and a few years out of school working in science and engineering, in NO uncertain terms the VAST majority of the people that I met were INTJ's, followed by ENTJ's, INTP's, ISTP's, and maybe ENTP's. In all those years of doing things, I am the ONLY INFP that I've ever seen! I've seen ONE INFJ, ONE ENFP, and *ZERO* ENFJ's, that entire time! And if you think that's bad, trying looking into how many engineers are SF's! Is there a law anywhere saying that NF's can't study physics, or that SF's can not? No, no there is not. But, there are reasons that NT's and TJ predominate in science and engineering, and there are reasons that NF's tend to flee like their very lives depend on it, and the SF's even more so. Once you start talking about large groups of people and trends, statistics comes into it. Sure you might always find a few stragglers here and there, me for example in the cases above, but the general trends still prevail by far. That in and of itself is not stereotyping, its calling the trends and statistics what they are. "ALL INFP's hate science" is a stereotype and incorrect, but "FEW INFP's go into hard sciences as a career" is a statistical statement, born out by experience and investigation. "All NT's are good at math and science" is a stereotype and incorrect, but "most scientists and engineers are NT's and/or TJ's" is a statistical statement, again born out by experience and investigation. There are tables of careers by MBTI percentage, for example in Gifts Differing, take a look, it's very interesting. And, IME quite disheartening.
    IME, a person can always "buck the trends" but if you do, be prepared to be the only person like yourself, standing on hostile ground, surrounded by people very different from yourself whom quite possibly look down on you for all sorts of different reasons. I never had a problem in my life that I knew of that I'd point to my MBTI as "causing", UNTIL I got into college/grad school/working. Now, its arguably every moment of everyday of my professional life. I know first hand a number of the reasons why INFPs don't generally pursue certain careers, and further why many of those who might initially pursue those careers would still quit them once they got into them. Yes, one can always make those uncommon untypical-for-your-type choices, but speaking from a number of personal experiences, they can go TOTALLY not the way you wanted and I don't recommend some of the consequences one iota.

  6. #36
    Senior Member Scott N Denver's Avatar
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    Oh, and I've aslo responded over in the "worst fit for the military" thread as well.

  7. #37
    Senior Member Chloe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    No NT despises NFs. They don't do emotions/feelings remember?
    I didn't say NTs despise NFs, NTs despise F itself. And anger /being disgusted by something is wellcomed feeling for NTs, if I got it correctly.

  8. #38
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    So.. okay, we can't stereotype NFs anymore. That still gives us 12 types that we can stereotype.

    Good.. good. I sure can't live without my stereotypin'

  9. #39
    Senior Member Chloe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greed View Post
    So.. okay, we can't stereotype NFs anymore. That still gives us 12 types that we can stereotype.
    :
    yay yay! you speak my language.

  10. #40
    Ruler of the Stars Asterion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott N Denver View Post
    Amazingly dumb question: Who does that now? Honestly, with all the books I've read, training I've been to, discussions I've been involved in, etc, I don't think that I have EVER actually heard anyone say that! Yes, type descriptions of NFP's often talk about "personal values "being "values-driven", and other words, but those seem to me to be attempts to describe the Fi function, and perhaps its Ne expressions.

    One can look at large pools of people and make statistical statements, and I wouldn't considering that stereotyping. "Most___ tend to __" is VERY different from "ALL ___ do ___." The correlations between MBTI type and careers comes to mind first for me. For example, the NT and TJ predisposition to become engineers or scientists, the INF tendency to become psychotherapists and the like, ENF's in things like PR and HR, these are trends that can be seen in large groups of people! To give a personal example, I have worked as both a "research scientist" [laser physics], and as a "research engineer". As mentioned above, science is very NT in character [theory NTP, experiment, NTJ], and engineering very TJ. Having spent 4 years in college physics, 7 years in graduate level physics and engineering, and a few years out of school working in science and engineering, in NO uncertain terms the VAST majority of the people that I met were INTJ's, followed by ENTJ's, INTP's, ISTP's, and maybe ENTP's. In all those years of doing things, I am the ONLY INFP that I've ever seen! I've seen ONE INFJ, ONE ENFP, and *ZERO* ENFJ's, that entire time! And if you think that's bad, trying looking into how many engineers are SF's! Is there a law anywhere saying that NF's can't study physics, or that SF's can not? No, no there is not. But, there are reasons that NT's and TJ predominate in science and engineering, and there are reasons that NF's tend to flee like their very lives depend on it, and the SF's even more so. Once you start talking about large groups of people and trends, statistics comes into it. Sure you might always find a few stragglers here and there, me for example in the cases above, but the general trends still prevail by far. That in and of itself is not stereotyping, its calling the trends and statistics what they are. "ALL INFP's hate science" is a stereotype and incorrect, but "FEW INFP's go into hard sciences as a career" is a statistical statement, born out by experience and investigation. "All NT's are good at math and science" is a stereotype and incorrect, but "most scientists and engineers are NT's and/or TJ's" is a statistical statement, again born out by experience and investigation. There are tables of careers by MBTI percentage, for example in Gifts Differing, take a look, it's very interesting. And, IME quite disheartening.
    IME, a person can always "buck the trends" but if you do, be prepared to be the only person like yourself, standing on hostile ground, surrounded by people very different from yourself whom quite possibly look down on you for all sorts of different reasons. I never had a problem in my life that I knew of that I'd point to my MBTI as "causing", UNTIL I got into college/grad school/working. Now, its arguably every moment of everyday of my professional life. I know first hand a number of the reasons why INFPs don't generally pursue certain careers, and further why many of those who might initially pursue those careers would still quit them once they got into them. Yes, one can always make those uncommon untypical-for-your-type choices, but speaking from a number of personal experiences, they can go TOTALLY not the way you wanted and I don't recommend some of the consequences one iota.
    Thanks for that insight into MBTI and the sciences! I've noticed one thing so far, there were quite a fair few ENTPs in chemistry, the INTPs there were also quite easy to pick out. ISTJs also make quite decent scientists, I'm not sure how stereotypical that is. The dominant Si is very very useful for remembering procedures in problem solving, and the Te draws them towards logic (they don't have to be good at logic, they just prefer it).

    Quote Originally Posted by Chloee View Post
    I didn't say NTs despise NFs, NTs despise F itself. And anger /being disgusted by something is wellcomed feeling for NTs, if I got it correctly.
    I don't think there is any despising involved at all, it's just a simple difference in values. For example, an Fe user will honor the military services and value the traditions, Unless a T can find some kind of logic in the tradition, they probably wont see the point. I think Fi will have a similar kind of approach, they see it as a good, and they feel that they should honor the tradition, or do something good about it. (note that I'm basing most of this on theory, and a few observations). I think that Ts have a bit of a hard time trying to follow some of these ethics, it doesn't mean that they will hate Fs (unless they are really jealous), it's simply a difference in focus.
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