[MBTI General] Life long INTJ Friend Lost

[sabastious]

My relationship with my INTJ friend has been rocky the past few months so I decided to call him out of the blue today and see if I could patch things up a bit. The convo went like this:

Me: Hey Friend(his name), it's Alex

Friend: What's up (with a very short and pissed off tone)

Me: Hey man, havn't talked with you in a while, just wanted to say hi

Friend: Yeah (again, very short)

Awkward silence

Me: Uhhh, so how you doin?

Friend: Look, I'm in the middle of something I gotta go.

Me: Ok..... cya

Hang up.

I havn't talked to him in a good 3 months. The last few phone convos have been pretty similer, but this one was more passive agressive than usual.

We used to joke that we have been friend since the womb because we were born only a week apart and grew up together, seriously best friends.

It's sad because he has never came to me with the obvious issues he has with me. I know he has heard some stuff about me, but not from me, and I know his sources are pretty bias since they have major ulterior motives.

But my main issue, is that if he wants to end the 25 year friendship, just tell me. Send me a letter or something, I think it's cowardly to just brush me off and say "he is doing something right now" or whatever. That's the kind of respect I get? That's how he wants a 25 year friendship to end? It's baffeling.

I have tried to get information out of him, but he's not interested in talking, he's kind of made up his mind based on heresay

 

[SpottingTrains]

Might have better luck posting this in the NT forums if you are looking for input from INTJs.

 

[Fidelia]

I'm so sorry! That's really disconcerting. Go talk to the INTJs about it.

 

[INTJ123]

I can't help but feel like this is a one sided story. I certainly wouldn't end a 25 year friendship over some rumors... I dunno what the whole story is, cause you don't give the details. It probably didn't help to call and be casual as if nothing is going on either(would irritate me), but my advise is to call him up and just be blunt and ask him, HEY MAN ARE WE STILL FRIENDS? see where it goes from there, if he straight up says no then well, sorry.

 

[amelie]

Wow - I would definitely be really hurt by that. I've heard that INTJ's can be dismissive, but they can also be straightforward about things. Do you have any idea what he might be angry about? Is there any chance that you really did catch him in the middle of something and he couldn't talk? Maybe there is something going on with him personally that he doesn't feel he can share - INTJ's can be pretty closed even with people they are close to.

One thing that you might do is send him a text or E-mail and tell him you'd like to have some time to hang out, then just ask him what's going on and if he's okay. I suggest being careful about your wording and tone so that you don't get the dismissal again. I wouldn't assume (unless you know otherwise based on something that happened between you) that he wants to end the friendship. Just say, hey, I've missed spending time with you - you are my oldest friend or like a brother to me or whatever - and I was wondering if we can hang out or if everything is okay with you?

That would be my thought - maybe I'll get schooled by INTJs, though...

 

[Mempy]

I wouldn't assume he's made up his mind based on heresay, unless he tells you so himself. That suspicion, if not evidenced strongly, may just be your insecurity regarding whatever it is you think people might have to say about you behind your back.

The way he was curt, is sounded almost as if he were mad at you. I can see no reason to intentionally be curt except that he feels you've insulted or slighted him somehow, or maybe even hurt him somehow. Maybe he's mad at the whole human race. If he's not intentionally trying to hurt you, then whatever hurt he's causing you is unintentional. And if he is hurting you intentionally, who wants a friend like that? Nothing you've done would warrant his mistreating you.

In any case, malice or not, you deserve better than to be in what sounds like something of a one-sided friendship. A lot of the grief you're feeling over this rocky friendship is probably fear--fear of things being different from the way you liked them, fear of being alone, fear that you won't be able to find another friendship like the one you had, and fear that maybe the way this friendship is turning out reflects poorly on you as a person.

I'd start by commenting on the behavior. "You seem kind of irritated and grouchy." He might explain himself. But if the behavior's been carrying on for a few months, it may just be time to write it off as a friendship that's somewhat broken right now. He may come around and shape up, start treating you right, he may not. In any case, you deserve better than to wait around on someone who may or may not give you the time of day, someday. There are much better possibilities and horizons out there.

 

[Usehername]

He seems mad and/or upset.

He's probably waiting for you to man up and initiate a mature conversation and clear through the crap with him. Otherwise it looks like you're pussyfooting around your mistakes, and this perception he might have would reinforce the rumors he heard, making him want to sever a relationship with an immature egg.

Call him again. Say that you know he's heard things about you, but that you need to resolve misconceptions and own up to any poor behaviour choices/lapses in whatever it was that you did to instigate the rumors. Tell him you value his character traits of maturity and respectful behaviour and you need him to show you the honor of hearing you out.

Make sure you spit this out asap and don't be wimpy waiting for him to initiate this discussion, otherwise he'll be "busy" again and not want to chat. If I behaved that way toward a friend it would be because they were immature and not ready to own up to their behaviour (this would be my perception).

Are you not being mature?

Are you attempting to live your implied or stated values or are you all talk with lots of failed execution of moral behaviour?


If he's hurt it's probably because you've failed at being a decent human being, and he's lost faith in you. Show him your decency, work through your crap, and remember that growing comes with growing pains.

I sever relationships with friends who aren't willing to endure the growing pains that comes with growing. Who wants to be friends with a stagnant individual? They're leechy. Stagnancy in humans is actually deteriorative, if you think about it. I stay far away from that.

Just some INTJ thoughts.

 

[sabastious]

I wanted to be vague because I don't want to bash him. I know the story because my brother has told me how my friend feels about me, but my friend wont talk to me, despite my attempts.

I'll give you the short story:

My friend's wife's best bud is my sister in law, who is 19 and had an accident with my brother and got pregnent. I was the only one in the family that wasn't being fakely extatic about it because they are both unemployed and are 'barrowing' a house and car from my grandfather, then they get pregnent. I wanted to be supportive, but I'm not going to jump for joy and say it's a wonderful time, because they have serious life problems (basically homeless). I was going to be there to help them and I told my brother that, but I also told him that the timing was not the best and that it was going to complicate and make his life harder.

Then a few weeks later she miscarried. I told my mother when it happened that I was happy(bad choice of word, I was more relieved that they didn't have to go through the stress of having a kid and being homeless). Somehow this bad choice of words got to my sister in law who was going through the emotional termoil of having a miscarriage. She basically accused me of feeding on her pain, and that fact that she was in emotional pain made me happy.

When I heard of this I immediatly set the matter straight and told them that I was only relieved that they didn't have to have a kid right now and could wait until a better time in there life when, you know, they have a place to live and an income.

My brother understood, but my 19 year old INFP sister-in-law wouldn't take the appology and held to the truth that I was a baby hater and wanted her to feel emotional pain.

My sister-in-law and her friend(my friend's wife) have worked themselves into a frenzy and developed a pretty large hatred for me. And my friend has bought into this even tho the real information is out there, they wont accept it.

I have tried to mend things, but he doesn't want a thing to do with me. If that's how it ends, that's how it ends. But I don't think it has to be this way. But he doesn't seem to want to accept the truth that I am not this hateful venomous person I am portrayed as.

 

[sabastious]

I can't help but feel like this is a one sided story. I certainly wouldn't end a 25 year friendship over some rumors... I dunno what the whole story is, cause you don't give the details. It probably didn't help to call and be casual as if nothing is going on either(would irritate me), but my advise is to call him up and just be blunt and ask him, HEY MAN ARE WE STILL FRIENDS? see where it goes from there, if he straight up says no then well, sorry.

What he did on the phone was rude and hateful.

The truth is, if he is going to believe information from others about me when I know he has the info on how I defended myself and still doesn't accept it, then I don't want a relationship with him. It's sad really.

I haven't talked to him in months, how do you think the first 10 seconds of the phone call is going to sound? It's gonna be some small talk until the ice is broken and I can ask him if he wants to get together to mend things. His reaction to my phonecall today is a clear indication of what he thinks of our relationship IMO.

 

[sabastious]

The reason this is in the NF forum is because I'm having issues dealing with this emotionally. I have never lost a friend like this before. And I am not interested in mending it anymore, that has been removed from the table. Now it's a weird grieving process that I have never felt before.

 

[Wiley45]

I agree with the INTJ's who've said you should talk to him and be very direct, asking straight questions like, "Is there a problem between us?" or "Are we still friends?"

We INFP's can tend to be vague or dance around the elephant in the room because we don't want to hurt people, but in my experience with INTJ's, it's best to just lay everything out and be completely blunt. They're not hurt by it. In contrast, they're annoyed when we don't get straight to the point.

Also, this is just my opinion, but I wouldn't call his end of the phone conversation hateful. Rude, sure, but not hateful. If you want to try to patch things up with him, you might need to try to keep in mind that his way of dealing with things will probably be blunt, but don't read it as hateful just because it feels hurtful to you. We INFP's are super sensitive, and sometimes oversensitive, so it helps to try not to read too far into what INTJ's say or do.

Good luck... Hope you guys get it resolved.

 

[Wiley45]

Oh. Whoops. I wrote my post before I saw your last post about not wanting to resolve the conflict.

This is just my advice, so take it or leave it as you like, but I think it would be a good idea to at least try to call and be direct before you give up on the whole thing. At least it would let you know exactly where things stand. If there's been miscommunication on either end, you could get it cleared up. Maybe you could even salvage your friendship. It might be worth a shot.

If you DO decide to talk to him... think it all out first. I'd suggest even getting out a piece of paper and trying to think about your most important points. What things do you need to ask about? clear up? apologize for? I would figure out the most important points and make them into a bulleted list. Keep it short! Figure out the most concise way you can say what you need to say. We INFP's can tend to wander all over the place and bounce around with "feeling-ish" talk, and that drives the INTJ's I know completely nuts. It will probably help to think in terms of a to-the-point list of things that need to be said, if you want to communicate to him in the way he can best relate.

 

[INTJ123]

oh now it makes sense, it's not just him then, it's his wife and his wife's BF. I think you're gonna have to try to patch things up with all of them if you want your friend back. goodluck man, 25 years is a long time don't just throw it away.

 

[jenocyde]

I agree that would be a silly reason for him to be upset with you, but I am guessing that this was just the straw on the camel's back and there could be other things that he's not telling you because he assumes you know.

If his wife despises you now, he will have to keep his distance. If a man is in the position where he has to choose between his wife and a friend, he will choose his wife. That's just the way it is and the way it should be, imo. I'm sure you can wait a bit for this all to die down.

No matter what you meant, what you said was indeed hurtful and inappropriately timed. Maybe you can start with the woman who miscarried - send her flowers and an apology letter (which you mean sincerely). When and if she forgives you, things can only then improve with all other parties. But she's the one you offended, so try to make amends with her - just because it seems like the right thing to do. She's super emotional now, so don't expect a quick forgiveness, she's probably projecting a lot of her anger on to you.

As far as your friend, keep an open mind - he hasn't declared the friendship over, which we NTs are prone to do when it is over. Everytime I am short with someone, it's because I need space and time to think. Give him that. Be patient.

 

[jenocyde]

And why on earth would your mother spread such hateful gossip? It seems like she wanted someone to get hurt. If you can't confide in your own mother, you have bigger problems that you need to resolve.

 

[Fidelia]

INFPs tend to really, really, really want to avoid conflict. Are you sure that you are not just avoiding dealing with the whole thing (your sister-in-law, his wife and him) when you say he has acted too badly for you to carry on with the friendship? Wait a little bit before you do anything damaging. In the meantime, your s-in-law will not forgive you right away, so start working on it now, because you don't want to just forget about her and your brother. It takes a lot of guts, but I'm guessing if you asked your NT friend what all was contributing in addition to this thing, he'd tell you. And he'd probably respect you if you were able to listen and do something about it. NTs aren't terribly subjective, so it might be worth at least hearing what he has to say, whether or not the two of you carry on as friends.

 

[nightning]

Hmmm a quick clean cut leads to better and faster healing then a dragged out jagged one. In my opinion, it'll probably cause you less pain to deal with this now and resolve it as oppose to waiting. The more time you give a introverted J time to think, usually the more resistent they are to change.

 

[amelie]

My thought would be that he's stuck between you and his wife, and his wife is going to win, because he has to be on her side. While your view of things is totally understandable, it's not the most sensitive thing to say, and I agree with the above poster who says you need to make up with everyone. At least make a gesture - talk to couple directly and apologize, or send a note or something. 25 years is a long time - it will take time to make it right, but with such a long history you would think your relationship could overcome many obstacles. Everyone makes mistakes - just say to yourself that you aren't going to make that one again and realize that as obvious as your perspective seems to you, it's not always going to be seen the same by everyone else. Also, it may take time and your friend may need some distance from you in the interim; you may have to just say, well, I really value your friendship and the door is open if you every feel like hanging out again.

 

[Lethe]

Me: Hey Friend(his name), it's Alex

Friend: What's up (with a very short and pissed off tone)

Just reading these two lines alone tells me that he's middle of something and would prefer to sort them out before handling another situation. (Unexpected) interruptions do not sit well with many IJs.

The reason this is in the NF forum is because I'm having issues dealing with this emotionally. I have never lost a friend like this before. And I am not interested in mending it anymore, that has been removed from the table. Now it's a weird grieving process that I have never felt before.

A 25 year long friendship is no easy thing to get over, nor is it worth wasting.

Sometime in the future when you feel ready to keep in touch again, how about sending him a written form (email, standard letters, etc.) of your concerns? It would provide enough time for your friend to gather his thoughts and explain his full opinions about the conflict. I would assume he has more issues to deal with than it appears.

I agree with Jenocyde - NTs (especially NTJs) would tell you if they decide to terminate the friendship. I also think settling matters with his wife and her best friend will greatly help you repair the connection. (On a side note, IMO, it sounds terribly selfish to make your spouse choose between their BBF and yourself. I hope this is only my perception and that your friend has a solid reason for the lack of communication on his part. I find it hard to believe an IxTJ, who has devoted that much personal time into a relationship, would break it so easily over an ill-timed comment without a confrontation.)

 

[Economica]

I have only skimmed the other replies (and actually also your OP ), but I would try asking him what the problem is in writing instead of over the phone. That way he is more likely to open up, when he is not put on the spot and having to figure out what he means as he's putting into words (or rather, when no one is hearing the first drafts). Also, frame your question as wanting to know what you might have done wrong so you can learn from it and improve yourself for future friendships (or put it out of your mind and move on if it is something you cannot change). That way you'll activate his sense of efficiency (and flatter his righteousness) to overcome his immature unwillingness to face and handle people problems.