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  1. #361
    Senior Member alcea rosea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arcticangel02 View Post
    I would guess that it's because we just are, and we do our thing without even thinking about it... it's only when someone's behaviour alters towards us, or something like that - we are jolted down to earth and realise the effect we have on other people.... It embarasses us because we're generally modest folks, and overmuch attention is uncomfortable for us...

    (Actually, this reminds me of the video I posted here. Robin Williams (an ENFP) does his thing and is totally caught up in the moment... when he finishes and sits down he looks quite embarassed at the standing ovation. And you would think, he gets applause like that all the time - but he's still not 'used to it'.)
    What a excellent post!! That sounds a really good explanation for the whole thing.

    That Robin Williams video was hilarious. That's Ne for sure.

  2. #362
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    Hmm...you know I am a big ham. Even in karaoke I'm a mic hog. I like talking trash and going, "I'm NUMBER ONNNNE!" even and especially when I'm losing. Partly it just cracks me up and I find it enjoyable.

    I'm quite immodest in that way. I've always liked being on stage and getting applause both literally and figuratively.

    It's only that I've gotten older though that my relationship with applause and praise has gotten more complicated. I still love praise and getting compliments, though yeah, I can get very shy about it as well. I'm kinda like, Look at MEEEE! Oh wait, I feel funny, stop looking at me! No wait, where are you going??? LOOK AT MEEEEE!!!" Hahhaaah.

    I think even being showered with praise it would be hard for me to have an unrealistically puffed up view of myself. I think you can say some types aer too self-critical or too objective or aware of how they are to others to be swayed by praise.

    For ENFP, I think being the opposite, somewhat oblivious of how we seem to others and I dunno, I always wonder about compliments. And perhaps this is a type related thing, but I feel like at this age I'm self-critical but not overly so. I have a pretty good "objective" sense of where I stand comparatively with my peers and do so without too much ego investment. While I would like to say I'm this much better than others, if I'm not I don't feel too tore up about it and if I do honestly think I am this much better at something, I'm pleased but I don't start looking down on other people or get puffed up...I don't think at least.

  3. #363
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    First off I'd like to say I'm so glad I found this thread, a lot of interesting stuff I can relate to

    Annnd to dig up an old thread, I have a question for the ENFP's with close INTP friends. My best friend is a INTP and usually we get along crazy well. I can start conversations with her about anything and everything and she'll just go along with it, so it's not uncommon that we end up talking all day up into the wee hours of the morning.

    However it seems like we've been getting into a lot of arguments lately about how we approach things socially. Whenever I try to explain to her that she shouldn't tell somebody something because it will hurt their feelings, she gets abrasive and tells me that "so what? it's good for them to know so then we can talk about it". Everything for her is "talk it out". I get really upset when she does this and I'm around, because I can feel the sting from their reaction, but I feel like I can't do much about it, that's just how she acts with people.

    But then she turns around and tells me that when I don't tell people "up front" about things, it's "lying". She gets REALLY upset if people aren't truthful about things, so much so that every time I do something that seems to her is "not myself" it's called "lying". I don't know how to explain to her that I am still actually myself, I can just emphasize points of myself, and hide other points to fit in each different crowd.. yes I think everyone is cool in their own way, they have their good sides and bad sides, and I like to focus on their good sides. She thinks people should focus on ALL sides, all the time, whether it causes them pain or discomfort. And the whole calling me a liar thing irks me, sigh.. I just simply can't lie. ever. I suck at it and wouldn't wanna do it anyway, when she says it I kinda feel like she's telling me I live a lie?? It's so not true!!

    And why sulk in the misery of a cloudy day when you can be helping bring the sun out of somebody? I don't get it. Does anybody else get the "liar" thing? It's like people put their view of me ON ME and when I stray from it I get called a liar, wtfx! And how do you deal with people/friends who don't get people's feelings..

  4. #364
    Senior Member sriv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by targo View Post
    I agree with this completely

    I never go out thinking oh I want to be the center of attention, I want to make friends I want to..... No it's never like that. Usually it's a thought process of 'oh please let me get through this night without doing anything stupid' For me going out at times can be a matter of survival especially if I don't know ppl there. *sigh*
    So it is a lack of control that you suffer from the most? Too much Ne and wanting to share it with the world?
    Reyson: ...If you were to change your ways, I'm sure we could rebuild the relationship the two of us once shared.

    Naesala: Oh no, that I could never do. You see, humans are essential to the fulfillment of my ambitions.

    Reyson: You've changed, Naesala. If this is the path you've chosen, I've nothing left to say.

  5. #365
    Scream down the boulevard LadyJaye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skittles View Post
    First off I'd like to say I'm so glad I found this thread, a lot of interesting stuff I can relate to

    Annnd to dig up an old thread, I have a question for the ENFP's with close INTP friends. My best friend is a INTP and usually we get along crazy well. I can start conversations with her about anything and everything and she'll just go along with it, so it's not uncommon that we end up talking all day up into the wee hours of the morning.

    However it seems like we've been getting into a lot of arguments lately about how we approach things socially. Whenever I try to explain to her that she shouldn't tell somebody something because it will hurt their feelings, she gets abrasive and tells me that "so what? it's good for them to know so then we can talk about it". Everything for her is "talk it out". I get really upset when she does this and I'm around, because I can feel the sting from their reaction, but I feel like I can't do much about it, that's just how she acts with people.

    But then she turns around and tells me that when I don't tell people "up front" about things, it's "lying". She gets REALLY upset if people aren't truthful about things, so much so that every time I do something that seems to her is "not myself" it's called "lying". I don't know how to explain to her that I am still actually myself, I can just emphasize points of myself, and hide other points to fit in each different crowd.. yes I think everyone is cool in their own way, they have their good sides and bad sides, and I like to focus on their good sides. She thinks people should focus on ALL sides, all the time, whether it causes them pain or discomfort. And the whole calling me a liar thing irks me, sigh.. I just simply can't lie. ever. I suck at it and wouldn't wanna do it anyway, when she says it I kinda feel like she's telling me I live a lie?? It's so not true!!

    And why sulk in the misery of a cloudy day when you can be helping bring the sun out of somebody? I don't get it. Does anybody else get the "liar" thing? It's like people put their view of me ON ME and when I stray from it I get called a liar, wtfx! And how do you deal with people/friends who don't get people's feelings..
    Well, that's the thing with NT's - they just want to get right to it, and sometimes that means it hurts people's feelings. My twin sister ( who posts as PinkPiranha) has an ex-boyfriend who's an INTP - he's still a close friend to both of us. I recently had a conversation with him over the phone in which he said a few things to me that were pretty hurtful, and my feelings got hurt, but I refrained from saying anything about it because I figured I was just being sensitive and I would walk it off later. However, when I told Pink about it, she basically told me that I wasn't being too sensitive, that he was actually being offensive and probably didn't recognize it. She called him back, and told him how much he'd upset me, and he got on the phone and apologized saying,
    " You need to tell me immediately if I'm being a jerk, because we should talk about it. " Pink knew that this was the right way to go with it, but I was still taken aback by it myself. I'm very good at communicating and getting to the point, but I also factor in other people's emotional responses to things when I'm approaching them, especially if it's about a delicate subject. Perhaps your friend has taken her need for accuracy and misapplied it somewhat - the realm of emotions is a whole different place that isn't based off of objective data. You might want to try telling her that diplomacy is an incredibly valuable skill set that will be a necessity to her if she wants to really make it in an ocean of people who don't see things the way she does. I'm all for the truth myself, but there has to be more than one approach to glean it, and extracting it from a situation shouldn't make everyone else involved necessarily feel like they're having their teeth pulled.

    Hope that makes sense.

  6. #366
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    ^^ Good advice!

    I have 2 close INTP friends and 1 INTP brother. I think a thoughtful, well-adjusted INTP appreciates honesty -- but that also includes you telling them they've upset you or that you disagree with them because X. You have to tell them so they can work with it and they can definitely handle it. Maturity and social experience plays a large part in this as well.

    With my INTP friends, sometimes I joke that they're harsh -- but I usually don't honestly think they are crossing the line or being abrasive. I'm accused of being 'blunt' myself. I think that's why ENFP/INTP can mesh well, since in our ways, we want to be 'authentic' and 'honest'. We can pretty much say anything to each other without judgement (well...too much judgement LOL)

    I sometimes have to remind my friends (not just INTP) that the way they go about telling their 'truth' can bite them in the butt, as they will end up alienating people or getting reactions that they do NOT want nor will they help their ultimate goal.

    I try to get them to see the other's POV and play out for them what will most likely happen if they say X in such a blunt way. That usually gets them to reconsider.
    “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” ― Oscar Wilde

    "I'm outtie 5000" ― Romulux

    Johari/Nohari

  7. #367
    Scream down the boulevard LadyJaye's Avatar
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    I try to get them to see the other's POV and play out for them what will most likely happen if they say X in such a blunt way. That usually gets them to reconsider.
    I always assumed that everyone saw other people's points of view when in the middle of a situation, but my ESTJ mother informed me that this wasn't the case. I think this must be an NFP sort of thing? It's impossible for me to NOT put myself in another's position, to the point of frustration sometimes.

  8. #368
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    ^^
    Exactly



    If I get carried away, I plan out how interactions will play out and other people will feel/react and then I second guess myself or act accordingly.

    It's a really bad trap. Perhaps similar to the endless INTP 'logic loop' where they mull over something to death.

    And perhaps another reason why ENFP/INTP end up friends?
    “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” ― Oscar Wilde

    "I'm outtie 5000" ― Romulux

    Johari/Nohari

  9. #369
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LadyJaye View Post
    I always assumed that everyone saw other people's points of view when in the middle of a situation, but my ESTJ mother informed me that this wasn't the case. I think this must be an NFP sort of thing? It's impossible for me to NOT put myself in another's position, to the point of frustration sometimes.
    I think your mother is underestimating the number of people who see other people's points of view.

    There are a lot of people who understand another's point of view and just don't care. Sometimes you've just got to throw down the olive branch and pick up your sword.

    I think NFPs may be more likely to have that bother them, though.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  10. #370
    Senior Member sketcheasy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skittles View Post
    First off I'd like to say I'm so glad I found this thread, a lot of interesting stuff I can relate to

    Annnd to dig up an old thread, I have a question for the ENFP's with close INTP friends. My best friend is a INTP and usually we get along crazy well. I can start conversations with her about anything and everything and she'll just go along with it, so it's not uncommon that we end up talking all day up into the wee hours of the morning.

    However it seems like we've been getting into a lot of arguments lately about how we approach things socially. Whenever I try to explain to her that she shouldn't tell somebody something because it will hurt their feelings, she gets abrasive and tells me that "so what? it's good for them to know so then we can talk about it". Everything for her is "talk it out". I get really upset when she does this and I'm around, because I can feel the sting from their reaction, but I feel like I can't do much about it, that's just how she acts with people.

    But then she turns around and tells me that when I don't tell people "up front" about things, it's "lying". She gets REALLY upset if people aren't truthful about things, so much so that every time I do something that seems to her is "not myself" it's called "lying". I don't know how to explain to her that I am still actually myself, I can just emphasize points of myself, and hide other points to fit in each different crowd.. yes I think everyone is cool in their own way, they have their good sides and bad sides, and I like to focus on their good sides. She thinks people should focus on ALL sides, all the time, whether it causes them pain or discomfort. And the whole calling me a liar thing irks me, sigh.. I just simply can't lie. ever. I suck at it and wouldn't wanna do it anyway, when she says it I kinda feel like she's telling me I live a lie?? It's so not true!!

    And why sulk in the misery of a cloudy day when you can be helping bring the sun out of somebody? I don't get it. Does anybody else get the "liar" thing? It's like people put their view of me ON ME and when I stray from it I get called a liar, wtfx! And how do you deal with people/friends who don't get people's feelings..
    i don't usually have this problem too much. i try to balance out my F and T so i usually don't mind really getting into it. i'm all about communication but i still have trouble taking criticism and i suck at debates. most of the time i avoid these situations by behaving like an introvert, utilizing more Thinking than Feeling if i can help it, and wearing my mask so things bounce off me. i can get very aggressive at times as well when i am in this mode of thought and it can be frustrating because i begin to feel lost and ambiguous. the toughest part is trying to use T more than F because i value it more, but my F is quite useful in a lot of tight spots in terms of relationships with others. however, if people see me as i am and i switch to this mode it throws people off. i love being unpredictable.

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