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  1. #291
    Scream down the boulevard LadyJaye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by missellis75 View Post
    I have a friend who I originally typed as ESFP, because she always kept such a tidy house. She got so mad at me--I was staying at her home for 4 months this fall--when I left a dish in the sink, or when something was out of place. Not only her house was so tidy, though, also her life became. Pretty fast I realized that she had lists and schedules for everything. Her kids, her husband, even me. I started to think that it was a kind of obsession with order that she had, and I really didn't understand it at all until she explained to me that she only lived such a structured life as an attempt to cope with the chaos around her--she even confided in me that she hated all the structure and missed the organic spontaneity of her youth. When she told me that I started to think that maybe I had typed her wrong and infact she was an ENFP like me, just coping with her extremely stressful life and using her inferior Si function in excess as a counterbalance.

    I have never been a very neat person, and she told me (and I think it is very true) that It is because I simply don't see the messes the same way that she does, thanks to my inferior introverted sensing.

    That's exactly what it is - thank you for putting it so succinctly. I have had to develop a tactical need for order, falling back on my Si, which does ultimately push me into a grip experience if I'm forced to maintain it for a long period of time. My mother recently went through a crisis, and almost lost her home - my sister and I were scrambling every day for months just to narrowly escape her house going into foreclosure. I consider financial things to be necessary but stressful, and then this recent nightmare was like pushing me straight off a ledge. I turn into the neatness police when I stress out, and I have no doubt that it's extremely annoying - I do actively attempt to curb the behaviour when I'm aware of it.


    Quote Originally Posted by allie bug View Post
    First of all, This thread is EXACTLY what I have been looking for! It's so wonderful to be able to see that other enfp's have the same problems: the "acting when you dont know you're acting"-the keeping people at a distance-so many other things that have been discussed..

    -lately I've been wondering if I was becoming a J through necessity....I'm at the turning point in my life where I have to grow up, pay bills, be responsible ect...and i found that i really like the organization. But It's good to know that other ENFP's experience this also.

    So, here's a question: have any of you had this experience (or been on the receiving end of it)? In my relationship, if something feels off, I either automatically assume that it's something I have done wrong, or that I have to fix it immediately. Are you all ever so worried about something turning into a large problem later on that you are hypersensitive to any minute conflict that comes up?
    Now, are you referring to a romantic relationship, or to relationships in general? Because for some reason, I separate the two out - the romantic relationships cause me much more stress and hyper-awareness than my friendships. But, I can safely say that my tendency, when things go wrong, is to immediately place blame on myself, even though it's not like a martyr complex, or a self- flaggelating sort of thing. My mind just immediately jumps to , " Okay, so what did I do incorrectly here?" Sort of a self-assessment thing. But I think perhaps ENFP's all do that - we are always seeking out the path to what we perceive to be our authentic selves, so when something in a relationship goes wrong, we automatically question our roles in that dynamic.

  2. #292
    Member allie bug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LadyJaye View Post
    Now, are you referring to a romantic relationship, or to relationships in general? Because for some reason, I separate the two out - the romantic relationships cause me much more stress and hyper-awareness than my friendships. But, I can safely say that my tendency, when things go wrong, is to immediately place blame on myself, even though it's not like a martyr complex, or a self- flaggelating sort of thing. My mind just immediately jumps to , " Okay, so what did I do incorrectly here?" Sort of a self-assessment thing. But I think perhaps ENFP's all do that - we are always seeking out the path to what we perceive to be our authentic selves, so when something in a relationship goes wrong, we automatically question our roles in that dynamic.

    i was referring to a romantic relationship....though I do often take the blame in a friendship just to end conflict and move on to being on good terms.
    As my boyfriend says
    "You deal with a problem light years before the problem would actually come to a head"
    So, Yes, I automatically ask "what did i do incorrectly?" but doesn't that have the extreme danger of putting everyone around you on a pedestal and not trusting yourself? I know we put others ahead of us a lot of the time, but how can you be your truly authentic self when you feel as if you are in the wrong ALL the time?

  3. #293
    Scream down the boulevard LadyJaye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by allie bug View Post
    i was referring to a romantic relationship....though I do often take the blame in a friendship just to end conflict and move on to being on good terms.
    As my boyfriend says
    "You deal with a problem light years before the problem would actually come to a head"

    I laughed when I read this, because I do the same thing. But, again, that's an ENFP trait. According to the MBTI books, ENFPs are very aware of the possibility of problems occurring in their environment - I think they term it as "hypervigilance", but to a lesser extent, I think it could be considered to be a "canary in the coal mine" sort of a function. My ENFJ sister is always amazed at what problems I foresee and head-off, as she is usually blissfully unaware of them.

    I don't know about you, but I suffer from muscle tension frequently, because of the readiness state I find myself in mentally. I use meditation and exercise to offset it.


    So, Yes, I automatically ask "what did i do incorrectly?" but doesn't that have the extreme danger of putting everyone around you on a pedestal and not trusting yourself? I know we put others ahead of us a lot of the time, but how can you be your truly authentic self when you feel as if you are in the wrong ALL the time?
    That's a real kicker isn't it? I suffered with this for YEARS. We're extroverted Intuitives, and yet, we seem to automatically discount our ability to intuit information correctly. What the heck, man?! I finally had to just tell myself, " You're a reasonable, intelligent person - listen to what your instincts are telling you, because they're your strength. " More times than not, I was borne out in the end.

  4. #294
    Member allie bug's Avatar
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    I'm with you on the muscle tension. I was so surprised to find that the was an ENFP trait....a physical trait for a personality profile!
    But thank you for your input, trusting yourself seems to be the hardest barrier to overcome as and ENFP....but hey, at least you've worked on it and succeeded so that gives me a little inspiration

  5. #295
    Senior Member alcea rosea's Avatar
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    Hello fellow ENFP - allie bug!

  6. #296
    Scream down the boulevard LadyJaye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by allie bug View Post
    I'm with you on the muscle tension. I was so surprised to find that the was an ENFP trait....a physical trait for a personality profile!
    But thank you for your input, trusting yourself seems to be the hardest barrier to overcome as and ENFP....but hey, at least you've worked on it and succeeded so that gives me a little inspiration

    I was surprised too! I just assumed that most people had their shoulders winched up to their earlobes most of the time, like I did, but apparently we're much more susceptible to it.

    When I talk to my twin sister about the struggles I have asserting my "me-ness" ( she's an ENFJ, so she doesn't have that problem. Actually, I use her as a reference point for helping me to push my own personality forward, the way she does. It helps tremendously. ), I always feel like I sound like such a headcase. lol Why it should be an issue is beyond me. Most people have to tone down how much they talk about themselves, but we seem to have an equal but opposite problem. It isn't healthy for us to recede, or to doubt our ability to intuit people or situations. When we allow that to be undercut, we essentially remove our mental sensors, as if someone removed our hands and feet and eyes. We suddenly have no way to judge our environment. It amazes me that all it takes to do this is to say, " Don't trust yourself. You're probably mistaken."

  7. #297
    Junior Member missellis75's Avatar
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    When I talk to my twin sister about the struggles I have asserting my "me-ness" ( she's an ENFJ, so she doesn't have that problem. Actually, I use her as a reference point for helping me to push my own personality forward, the way she does. It helps tremendously. ), I always feel like I sound like such a headcase. lol Why it should be an issue is beyond me. Most people have to tone down how much they talk about themselves, but we seem to have an equal but opposite problem. It isn't healthy for us to recede, or to doubt our ability to intuit people or situations. When we allow that to be undercut, we essentially remove our mental sensors, as if someone removed our hands and feet and eyes. We suddenly have no way to judge our environment. It amazes me that all it takes to do this is to say, " Don't trust yourself. You're probably mistaken." -LadyJaye
    BAHH! I know! Sometimes (on really bad days) I feel like I can't keep myself solid, like my personality is melting off of me, if that makes any sense--it's one of the strangest sensations that I think only ENFPs can understand, you feel traped inside your head, like you're looking out of your eyes at a bad movie, but its your life!

    Or then there's almost the opposite stress-coping thing that I do: I "try on" different personalities (sometimes from tv shows or movies, I am embarased to say) and see which ones fit the best... ugh! The worst part is that I am conscious that I am doing it but I just don't even try to stop myself!

    The good thing is that I have some amazing friends who I can't help but be myself around... A joke from them and my classic ENFP "silly-switch" is flipped and I'm back in the game.

    ---

    That's exactly what it is - thank you for putting it so succinctly. ... I turn into the neatness police when I stress out, and I have no doubt that it's extremely annoying - I do actively attempt to curb the behaviour when I'm aware of it. -LJ
    Wow! I'm glad that my vague ramblings were helpful!

  8. #298
    Scream down the boulevard LadyJaye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by missellis75 View Post
    BAHH! I know! Sometimes (on really bad days) I feel like I can't keep myself solid, like my personality is melting off of me, if that makes any sense--it's one of the strangest sensations that I think only ENFPs can understand, you feel traped inside your head, like you're looking out of your eyes at a bad movie, but its your life!

    That is EXACTLY how it feels. Exactly. When I'm under stress, it feels like sand sliding from my fingers. As if my personality is atomizing, and there's nothing I can do to stop it. It used to make me feel really panicked when I started to feel that occuring, but now I know to just go somewhere and get quiet. So instead of chasing my personality around, I wait for it to return to me.

    There's a poem by John Borroughs that I really connect to - perhaps you might see yourself in it as well.

    Waiting - John Borroughs

    Serene, I fold my hands and wait,
    Nor care for wind nor tide nor sea;
    I rave no more 'gainst time or fate,
    For lo! my own shall come to me.

    I stay my haste, I make delays -
    for what avails this eager pace?
    I stand amid the eternal ways
    and what in mine shall know my face.

    Asleep, awake, by night or day,
    The friends I seek are seeking me,
    No wind can drive my bark astray
    Nor change the tide of destiny.

    What matter if I stand alone?
    I wait with joy the coming years;
    My heart shall reap where it has sown,
    And gather up its fruit of tears.

    The waters know their own, and draw
    The brook that springs in yonder height;
    So flows the good with equal law
    Unto the soul of pure delight.

    The stars come nightly to the sky;
    The tidal wave unto the sea;
    Nor time, nor space, nor deep, nor high,
    Can keep my own away from me.

    I have to believe that what I am, and who I am, will come to me the way it needs to. I've tried to struggle with it in the past, and to force a change, or an evolution, and it's always traumatic. I hope that doesn't sound too disjointed or surreal.




    Wow! I'm glad that my vague ramblings were helpful!
    Don't we all think we do the "vague ramble"?! Yes, your rambles were very enlightening! Thanks for sharing them with me.

  9. #299
    Senior Member gretch's Avatar
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    I have a running theory that All ENFP's have a tendency towards being Bipolar.
    A man is not idle because he is absorbed in thought. There is visible labour and there is invisible labour.
    .
    -Victor Hugo

  10. #300
    Senior Member Dom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gretch View Post
    I have a running theory that All ENFP's have a tendency towards being Bipolar.
    It's the conflict between our values I guess.. one min one is in ascendancy the next another...

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