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  1. #21
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    I've had an ENFP friend for about 18 years (I think [dates aren't my strong suit, ask my nephews ]). The whole introverted extrovert is on the one hand IME total BS and on the other very true.

    90% of you know I'm on about Dom so I'll quite trying to conceal.

    With Dom he can be extremely introverted and even quite T-ish. Gen got a shock when she witnessed just how close to INTP thought trains Dom can get. However he is gregarious when partying and can be a total pain by just making soo much out of everything. He can do the "won't shut up even if struck with baseball bat" side and also the "been here ten minutes and all I've got is a flicker of the eye ball!!".

    Makes me think that ENFPs are not talked about so much cause we'd actually have to wait for them to decide who they are before we could describe them properly
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  2. #22
    Senior Membrane spirilis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by niffer View Post
    We are good at swallowing.
    So in other words, there is a distinct possibility that I may be offending my friend with such a conversation, and they don't really like it, but go along with it anyhow?

    (actually, I have seen this in my female ENFP friend watching someone else talk to her... this other person was bitching/badmouthing about a good friend of ours (an ENTJ, good friend of the ENFP and I); my ENFP friend continued to assume an attitude of amicability to the person while replying with only choice statements that agree with some part of the discussion she can agree with, while posing no reply to the parts which directly offend her friendship with the ENTJ target of discussion, and showing no visible body language or statements that inform the person that she is in disagreement)

  3. #23
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    I 'd like to ask some questions about/to ENFPs, especially young ones (15-16):
    - Do you use to devellop a mental bond with a person who isn't physically present? For instance, an older relative who lives in another city/country. If yes, why? Do you expect this person to feel this bond too, even if s/he knows nothing about the whole thing?
    - Do you tend to take things very personally? If yes, how should someone express him/herself in order to make his/her point without your taking it personally? Is this something you overcome by growing up? Is there a reason for that, or it is just an age thing?
    - When you are upset, how should people around you react? Do you want a physical proximity, some nice words or be left in peace until you feel better? Does it help when people try to present you a logical point of view, or is this not a good time?

    PLEASE NOTE: I do not assume ENFPs are like that. I wonder about a particular person, who I suspect she is an ENFP, is passing through the difficult age of 15 and I would like to understand more things about her behaviour and how to deal with it.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Lookin4theBestNU's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niffer
    Most reasonable people should understand my reasonable reason as to why I wouldn't want to do whatever it is...
    This part made me LOL for real . Thanks for answering Niffer it was very informative and exactly what I wanted to know/suspected.


    Quote Originally Posted by Xander
    Makes me think that ENFPs are not talked about so much cause we'd actually have to wait for them to decide who they are before we could describe them properly
    Here is my take on why ENFPs are not talked about much. I don't ask many questions not from lack of interest but because they seem exceptionally sensitive. I am an NF myself and it can be tough even for me to say it the 'right way'. I always feel as though I have to word things super carefully lest I risk offending them. ENFPs are also 'feel good' people and are very well liked. I think they are able to get away or fly under the radar for negative behaviors because over all they are so very charming. Conflict with them from my experience can turn into a lose/lose situation if done improperly. The 2 routes I have seen it go were "in your face over-reaction" OR "you have hurt my feelings really bad" (even if you thought you were careful!). I think the "shy extrovert" can actually play against them too if they choose not to tell you they are upset. They can stay angry for a long time without saying anything about it or showing it. I dislike conflict but would rather get it out of the way usually then hide resentment. I love ENFPs like most people but sometimes they make me have to think too much when it comes to diplomacy.
    "At points of clarity, I realize that my life on earth is meaningless, and that I am merely a pawn in a bigger game. A game I cannot possibly understand or have control of. Thankfully, before depression sets in, I drift back into my cloudy, bewildered daily routine." **Joel Patrick Warneke**

  5. #25
    ~*taaa raaa raaa boom*~ targobelle's Avatar
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    I find as an enfp that I am often described as diplomatic and tactful





    Quote Originally Posted by niffer View Post

    - explain why you sincerely cannot do it
    Most reasonable people should understand my reasonable reason as to why I wouldn't want to do whatever it is...

    [


    and FYI Niffer no one could have said it any better...... lol .......
    ~t ...in need of hugs please...
    Jung Test Results
    Extroverted (E) 63.16% Intuitive (N) 60.53% Feeling (F) 84.38% Perceiving (P) 87.1% ~Your type is: ENFP

  6. #26
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lookin4theBestNU View Post
    This part made me LOL for real . Thanks for answering Niffer it was very informative and exactly what I wanted to know/suspected.


    Here is my take on why ENFPs are not talked about much. I don't ask many questions not from lack of interest but because they seem exceptionally sensitive. I am an NF myself and it can be tough even for me to say it the 'right way'. I always feel as though I have to word things super carefully lest I risk offending them. ENFPs are also 'feel good' people and are very well liked. I think they are able to get away or fly under the radar for negative behaviors because over all they are so very charming. Conflict with them from my experience can turn into a lose/lose situation if done improperly. The 2 routes I have seen it go were "in your face over-reaction" OR "you have hurt my feelings really bad" (even if you thought you were careful!). I think the "shy extrovert" can actually play against them too if they choose not to tell you they are upset. They can stay angry for a long time without saying anything about it or showing it. I dislike conflict but would rather get it out of the way usually then hide resentment. I love ENFPs like most people but sometimes they make me have to think too much when it comes to diplomacy.
    I agree. I've met about three ENFPs, but never really became friends with them. I'd like these people and feel like we could connect, but then something weird would happen and we'd just stop talking. I never knew what it was, the fledgling friendship would just end. Then I'd start worrying that I said something that offended them and I'd just become confused. The most recent ENFP I met, I felt so self-conscious about what I was saying and if I was saying it right that I lost my usual composure and then that makes ME feel uncomfortable, feeling like I can't handle another person or a social situation. I just kinda gave it up.

    I do know with one of the three that she called me on a Saturday and asked me to pick her up from somewhere. I was a little hesitant because we didn't know each other very well, we'd taken a class together the previous semester, we liked each other, she invited me to a BBQ that summer and we were just getting to know each other. I don't know if that was some sort of test to see what I would do, but I did hesitate and I told her I couldn't (I was broke and watching my gas and the place she was at wasn't far far away, but far enough for it to take up a good chunk of my time). I called her a couple of more times to show that I hoped there was no ill will, but she didn't talk to me for the rest of the summer! When we got back to school, she was distant with me and I just left it alone.

    ETA: I think that part of my hesitation was because I'm very paranoid about being taken advantage of with other people that it sometimes causes me to overreact. I'm very generous with my time, and my car. I'm just sensitive about this. People have called me and asked me to pick them up from places and I'll do it and they never offer me any gas money and I don't like to ask for anything back because then I feel like it's a tit for tat thing, not an I genuinely wanted to help you thing.

    I probably had this rolling around in my mind with the ENFP.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  7. #27
    Senior Member miked277's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lookin4theBestNU View Post
    This part made me LOL for real . Thanks for answering Niffer it was very informative and exactly what I wanted to know/suspected.


    Here is my take on why ENFPs are not talked about much. I don't ask many questions not from lack of interest but because they seem exceptionally sensitive. I am an NF myself and it can be tough even for me to say it the 'right way'. I always feel as though I have to word things super carefully lest I risk offending them. ENFPs are also 'feel good' people and are very well liked. I think they are able to get away or fly under the radar for negative behaviors because over all they are so very charming. Conflict with them from my experience can turn into a lose/lose situation if done improperly. The 2 routes I have seen it go were "in your face over-reaction" OR "you have hurt my feelings really bad" (even if you thought you were careful!). I think the "shy extrovert" can actually play against them too if they choose not to tell you they are upset. They can stay angry for a long time without saying anything about it or showing it. I dislike conflict but would rather get it out of the way usually then hide resentment. I love ENFPs like most people but sometimes they make me have to think too much when it comes to diplomacy.
    w/ the female enfp i knew i definitely did a few things that she wasn't sure how to take, stuff like criticisms, or when i was being brusk or extremely quiet she'd think i was mad at her for some reason and act kind of nervous around me. she'd come up to me tho after a bit and ask why i was mad and i'd have to explain i wasn't, there wasn't any animosity there. after the first time that happened i just explained that if she thought i was mad at her again then just ask me because that was pretty much never the case. i actually think that's the way i come across to all Fi types. w/ Fe types, i basically am myself w/ them (quiet, serious, more or less nice) and they almost never misinterpret me, it's pretty refreshing... but that's for another thread.

    enfp's from what i've seen aren't great when involved in any sort of "negative" conflict. they just kind of try to escape or sidestep it by capitulating (unless it's something theyre 100% adamant on). i always kind of found that part annoying because those situations were usually ones where i became galvanized, rather than being the unassuming person i normally am. i guess another way of putting it would be, they're not terribly assertive in some situations.

  8. #28
    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
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    ENFPs are one of my favourite types to lead astray. You can cajole them into doing all sorts of reckless and irresponsible things if you turn up unexpectedly on their doorstep with a couple of friends at about 10pm and demand that they go (for example) night-swimming with you. They will almost never say no (assuming they knew you in the first place). They dig spontaneity -- they live for it.

    My question: are ENFPs as a type bad at telling when people like them? The ENFP friends I have are comically oblivious in that area.

  9. #29
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    I especially like ENFPs and work with quite a few in the arts. I typically come out of the interaction and friendships with the feeling that they are more important to me than i am to them. I kinda get the introverted-extrovert thing, but the ENFPs i know are distracted to a significant degree socially. Their charm exceeds any slight and it is basically impossible not to warm up to them instantly. They may have the most charisma of all the types. They do tend to be amazingly creative and warm. One of my all time favorite types. It is difficult to hold their attention for long. I find it necessary to keep them at arm's length emotionally for a while, so i don't get sucked into their charm and end up hurt when they move on.

    Quote Originally Posted by typelogic.com
    Social/Personal Relationships: ENFPs have a great deal of zany charm, which can ingratiate them to the more stodgy types in spite of their unconventionality. They are outgoing, fun, and genuinely like people. As SOs/mates they are warm, affectionate (l ots of PDA), and disconcertingly spontaneous. However, attention span in relationships can be short; ENFPs are easily intrigued and distracted by new friends and acquaintances, forgetting about the older ones for long stretches at a time. Less mature ENFPs may need to feel they are the center of attention all the time, to reassure them that everyone thinks they're a wonderful and fascinating person.

    ENFPs often have strong, if unconvential, convictions on various issues related to their Cosmic View. They usually try to use their social skills and contacts to persuade people gently of the rightness of these views; his sometimes results in their negle cting their nearest and dearest while flitting around trying to save the world.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
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    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

    I want to be just like my mother, even if she is bat-shit crazy.

  10. #30
    Senior Member niffer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirilis View Post
    So in other words, there is a distinct possibility that I may be offending my friend with such a conversation, and they don't really like it, but go along with it anyhow?
    If it isn't a direct insult to us (no matter if you are joking or not), it might bug us a little but wouldn't really go in too deep. If it is one, though, well...let's just say this is one of the things I am training myself to not let get to me.

    (actually, I have seen this in my female ENFP friend watching someone else talk to her... this other person was bitching/badmouthing about a good friend of ours (an ENTJ, good friend of the ENFP and I); my ENFP friend continued to assume an attitude of amicability to the person while replying with only choice statements that agree with some part of the discussion she can agree with, while posing no reply to the parts which directly offend her friendship with the ENTJ target of discussion, and showing no visible body language or statements that inform the person that she is in disagreement)
    Yes. I do this too. Once in a blue moon someone finds out I didn't "defend" them or whatever. They call me a flake; disloyal. However, in my point of view, I am just trying to avoid further conflict. While I am not exactly "defending" them by countering back or even disagreeing in any way, I try to provide excuses for my badmouthed friend, or tell them my friend's side of the story, so that they may form a better opinion of them if they wish. And of course, my friends are not the protagonists in all situations. The badmouther often makes many good points too, which I am usually able to agree with at least partly. And when they are often right, who am I to be repulsed? It's very easy to interpret careless mistakes/acts of insensitivity towards you negatively, and easy to take that negativity and go overboard...this is uncontrollable, and in some cases with certain people, inevitable. By taking the side of my friend just for the sake of expressing my loyalty in the face of something unchangeable by that behaviour is pointless. People are stupid. We do stupid things, and nobody is perfect (especially due to the fact that perfect is different to everyone). I could complain about anyone at all if I wanted to, pointing out this and that and those little things. There is little in this world that is not reasonable.

    Nevertheless, it is rude for someone to badmouth someone that they know is a close friend of mine, unless they are just as close to me. It is also bothersome for anyone at all to ask my opinion on someone they can see that I enjoy, regardless of how close I am to that person, just because of something they happen to not like about them.

    Actually, I have only ever taken extreme negative action once in a situation like this. It was during a project I was working on with my INFJ friend. We were talking while working on the project, and he basically either subtley or directly or indirectly insulted almost every person other than him and pretty much every aspect of society. He essentially stated that for everything that really mattered he was more cultured (not correct) and therefore superior than everyone else he knew so far that were better than him at other things. And not just what really mattered to him, it was, when it came down, what really mattered. What was the last straw for me was that he specifically insulted one of my best friends, stating that because she got straight A's- which could only mean that she was a soulless working drone, and from what he'd seen from her so far (which wasn't anything at all), she was not creative, and had little to no imagination or inner life, whatsoever. And that meant he was 1000 leauges over her in the apparent human rating system he'd created. He has known what she meant to me.

    We were working in the middle of the library, and I slapped him in the face again and again until his glasses fell off, and everyone stared, but I didn't care. I'd wanted to beat the living shit out of him ever since he started his pitiful topics, and throughout our conversation I'd clearly expressed my immense disagreement, disgust, and disappointment at his self-absorbed opinions- so that it became his choice whether he wanted to save himself or not. So at that point my rage was uncontrollable.

    After I'd assaulted him, he called me a barbarian (lol). Eventually the pussy started to cry softly, and I have to admit that although I tried hard not to, I felt a little regretful about what I did. But he's moved to Texas now, so whatever. (I do still keep in touch with him though, and we'd gotten over that little incident a few days after it happened, so don't let my last "so whatever" sentence alter your view on ENFPs, haha.)

    Quote Originally Posted by JivinJeffJones View Post
    ENFPs are one of my favourite types to lead astray. You can cajole them into doing all sorts of reckless and irresponsible things if you turn up unexpectedly on their doorstep with a couple of friends at about 10pm and demand that they go (for example) night-swimming with you. They will almost never say no (assuming they knew you in the first place). They dig spontaneity -- they live for it.
    This is correct.

    Quote Originally Posted by spirilis View Post
    My question: are ENFPs as a type bad at telling when people like them? The ENFP friends I have are comically oblivious in that area.
    I am famous for being able to tell when the opposite sex likes me, almost immediately after they start to...

    I present myself to others as extremely masculine for a girl (or at least a lot more than the typical Asian girl), even though deep down I am not that way. I act less aggressive when I'm talking directly with girls I don't know well though, so that I won't intimidate them. In other words, I have layers, and I can usually choose from myself what to show and what to save for another time. I just want people to feel at ease with me, like I can and want to understand them and that I am always a good person to go to. Because I do. And I *usually* am .

    I don't think anyone has not openly and obviously disliked me except for my one female friend...she didn't like me as much as I liked her as a friend. She was my first best friend, and she held this non-love in for a few years. She said she liked me but she never came to love me the way she did with other friends, which was something she never showed me even a bit. She said she'd been trying to get me to see that, and that if I was really listening, that I would. Apparently I had been too dense for that.

    She reasoned it this way:
    "Pepper doesn't love salt, pepper needs salt. Without salt there's no pepper, because salt is part of pepper. But salt still loves pepper even though pepper doesn't love salt, even though pepper isn't in salt."

    I had a hard time trying to figure out who was salt and who was pepper...I think she meant that she was supposed to be pepper. Either way, a lot in general can be explained by that phrase...I guess.
    Last edited by niffer; 09-20-2007 at 03:30 AM. Reason: poop
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