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Thread: ENFJ & INFP

  1. #181
    Seriously Delirious Udog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    But I think this emotional connectivity or whatever works much better for male ENFJs and female INFPs.
    Quote Originally Posted by PinkPiranha View Post
    Interesting how that is. I was pondering it myself.

    Then again, if you're Johnny Depp, come on over.
    This is about INFP males and ENFJ females...

    I think the Johnny Depp thing is the major curve ball with INFP(m) and ENFJ(f). INFPs can be passionate to the point where it encompasses our entire being, affecting every aspect about us. I can totally see how that would draw in a stray ENFJ (or honestly, a wide variety of types). I've noticed that when you combine that with the somewhat shy and awkward mannerisms we tend to have, it creates an odd mixture that seems to entice ExxJ types in particular. Perhaps because we naturally bend but are very hard to break?

    The challenge is that from the ENFJ side, the INFP may be a bit too prone to envelop their emotions to detrimental effect, with little desire to get out of it. This can be bad when the ENFJ looks to the INFP for male strength or support, or when the INFP won't share the emotions so the ENFJ can't understand why we feel what we do. On the other hand, INFPs can resist the ENFJ tendency to try to invoke a reaction, especially if it's an intense emotional response. Alot of those issues may still exist with ENFJ(m) and INFP(f), but gender roles provide a context where they are acceptable and to some extent even desirable.

  2. #182
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Udog View Post
    This is about INFP males and ENFJ females...

    I think the Johnny Depp thing is the major curve ball with INFP(m) and ENFJ(f). INFPs can be passionate to the point where it encompasses our entire being, affecting every aspect about us. I can totally see how that would draw in a stray ENFJ (or honestly, a wide variety of types). I've noticed that when you combine that with the somewhat shy and awkward mannerisms we tend to have, it creates an odd mixture that seems to entice ExxJ types in particular. Perhaps because we naturally bend but are very hard to break?

    The challenge is that from the ENFJ side, the INFP may be a bit too prone to envelop their emotions to detrimental effect, with little desire to get out of it. This can be bad when the ENFJ looks to the INFP for male strength or support, or when the INFP won't share the emotions so the ENFJ can't understand why we feel what we do. On the other hand, INFPs can resist the ENFJ tendency to try to invoke a reaction, especially if it's an intense emotional response. Alot of those issues may still exist with ENFJ(m) and INFP(f), but gender roles provide a context where they are acceptable and to some extent even desirable.
    Most excellent reply, Udog.

    I've been reluctant to comment on the INFP/ENFJ dynamic because the thread felt a little sickly sweet to me and I didn't want to come in and foul it up, but I guess I'm over that now.

    Most of my interactions with INFPs fall into the female ENFJ, female INFP category. I agree for the most part about what people have said about the emotional connectivity. The two female INFPs I treasure don't really seem like to INFPs on the forum so maybe that's the difference. They're feisty, assertive, and have got energy for days. I think they have healthy Te development...both of them have advanced degrees so they've probably had the Te beat into them. The emotional connectivity for me comes in the form that feelings don't have to be justified or rationalized they stand on their own merit.

    I remember one of them quit her job this time last summer. Not that I thought it was the smartest move to make (I'm in the same boat with my job but we're in a recession so things become more tolerable) but when she explained it to me she said she could not work there any more in all honesty because she was stealing from them. She said she was basically collecting a check and not working and had no motivation and disinterested in the work and it was dishonesty.

    Once again, not that I agreed with the decision but I really felt what compelled her. That didn't need to be explained to me, I understood it. She said that everyone said she was crazy to quit a good job and she didn't have anything else lined up and just take the money. The psychological and emotional component of her decision seemed to completely logical to me and was enough reason to me for it to be acted upon. Now the practical component of her decision wasn't too smart but she has someone to help her financially which cushoined the decision. The problem with this dynamic is we can completely coast on our respective feelings and the "feeling logic" can really get harebrained after awhile with no checks and balances. But I find that tends to happen generally with too many feelers.

    I don't mean to offend but the INFP males I've felt parental towards. I'm not going to deny there are some gender roles mixed up in here, but when I have the same relationship with a (INFP) female with a (INFP) male it feels like we're "girlfriends." If their Fi manifests differently I may not be recognizing some INFP males in my environment but the ones I do recognize as INFP feel cuddly to me. Now to some ENFJ females that's really appealing and cozy. But I want a partner in crime, so to speak, and I'm not really sure if an INFP male can fit that bill. I'm not looking for someone I have romantic interests in to open up and coax out of their shell. Platonically, I don't mind, but not romantically. The coaxing and drawing out part is what makes it feel parental to me. That cuddliness works well between an ENFJ male and INFP female, but not so much is what I'm looking for.

    Also I think Fe and Fi wants things from each other. I may have said this before in other Fe/Fi interaction threads but I feel like Fi wants to get intimate and Fe wants to stay comfortable. Fe is structured to put up locks so that a relationship progresses along a linear path. We get to know each other first, we reciprocate information, we don't poke and prod until we've reached a certain point, we know where we stand in relation to each other, then after a certain point is passed, then the intimate part comes. I was watching Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind a few weeks ago and there was that part when Clementine took the chicken leg from Joel's plate and ate it. I thought to myself that is so Fi! She totally skipped a step. I'm not saying that Fe must progress down a path that cannot be deviated from but for me I can say to get "intimate" with someone that quickly throws me a bit. For me it's more of an internal "OH!" than an external because I'm all about the quick recovery.

    I think this is what is happening between Thessaly and her ENFJ. Aside from the fact that he just got out of relationship (which makes you a likely rebound) I would also guess that you're just dealing with the natural Fe/Fi interaction. Based on the information you've given I don't think he's fucking with you...you're the best judge of that we're just outsiders looking in.

    I don't think this is a bad thing because sometimes Fi can speed Fe up when Fe is being detrimentally structured. Likewise, Fe can structure Fi when it's getting too far in too fast. Also I think sometimes that Fi enjoys a vicarious living through Fe. I've always had a problem with Fi being the "deep" feeling and Fe that "shallow" feeling. Fe is expressive and I think sometimes Fi likes to roll around in it when it's good and get a rise out of it when it's bad. I think Fe admires the containment and inner peace that Fi can manifest externally. It can be calming.

    Uh, my thoughts just came to screeching halt but maybe more will come to me later.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  3. #183
    I drink your milkshake. Thessaly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathanthegreat View Post
    do tell

    I got him to open up about the ex-girlfriend to me. Provided some counseling and all in all he seemed extremely appreciative of it, like I was some Jesus Christ superstar or something. I'm not sure what will happen next, but I think when he is more ready he will come out to play. From what I sense it's gonna take a long long fricken time. I really want to just shake him and be like move the fudge on already! I'm really impressed with how genuine and caring he was in trying to remain on good terms with the ex. He should really just save that awesomeness for me though. Someone who will appreciate it and reciprocate If he'd just let me I could totally heal his wounded soul. I mean I am a "Healer" after all hehe

  4. #184
    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thessaly View Post
    I got him to open up about the ex-girlfriend to me. Provided some counseling and all in all he seemed extremely appreciative of it, like I was some Jesus Christ superstar or something. I'm not sure what will happen next, but I think when he is more ready he will come out to play. From what I sense it's gonna take a long long fricken time. I really want to just shake him and be like move the fudge on already! I'm really impressed with how genuine and caring he was in trying to remain on good terms with the ex. He should really just save that awesomeness for me though. Someone who will appreciate it and reciprocate If he'd just let me I could totally heal his wounded soul. I mean I am a "Healer" after all hehe
    Sounds like someone is a little jealous.

  5. #185
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Udog View Post
    This is about INFP males and ENFJ females...

    I think the Johnny Depp thing is the major curve ball with INFP(m) and ENFJ(f). INFPs can be passionate to the point where it encompasses our entire being, affecting every aspect about us. I can totally see how that would draw in a stray ENFJ (or honestly, a wide variety of types). I've noticed that when you combine that with the somewhat shy and awkward mannerisms we tend to have, it creates an odd mixture that seems to entice ExxJ types in particular. Perhaps because we naturally bend but are very hard to break?
    I always saw this as one of my better traits, except...

    The challenge is that from the ENFJ side, the INFP may be a bit too prone to envelop their emotions to detrimental effect, with little desire to get out of it. This can be bad when the ENFJ looks to the INFP for male strength or support, or when the INFP won't share the emotions so the ENFJ can't understand why we feel what we do.
    I think I lost an ENFJ doing the second bolded hoping to do the first. She also constrained me to Facebook messages instead of letting me talk to her directly, and show her. Instead I was caged to dead text that made it hard for me to convey what I wanted to.

    On the other hand, INFPs can resist the ENFJ tendency to try to invoke a reaction, especially if it's an intense emotional response. Alot of those issues may still exist with ENFJ(m) and INFP(f), but gender roles provide a context where they are acceptable and to some extent even desirable.
    I wonder if she was trying to invoke a reaction; a reaction I tried to give, but apparently not the way she was looking for.

    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    I've been reluctant to comment on the INFP/ENFJ dynamic because the thread felt a little sickly sweet to me and I didn't want to come in and foul it up, but I guess I'm over that now.
    Nice of you to be sensitive, but reality is still reality.

    Most of my interactions with INFPs fall into the female ENFJ, female INFP category. I agree for the most part about what people have said about the emotional connectivity. The two female INFPs I treasure don't really seem like to INFPs on the forum so maybe that's the difference. They're feisty, assertive, and have got energy for days. I think they have healthy Te development...both of them have advanced degrees so they've probably had the Te beat into them. The emotional connectivity for me comes in the form that feelings don't have to be justified or rationalized they stand on their own merit.
    What kind of energy? I can keep at a sewing project or a canoe trip for days on end, but can only handle a few hours of social before I have to detatch. I run more Te than I like, but it was a survival move that started when I was 5 (my actions on this forum is typically me decompressing).

    I remember one of them quit her job this time last summer. Not that I thought it was the smartest move to make (I'm in the same boat with my job but we're in a recession so things become more tolerable) but when she explained it to me she said she could not work there any more in all honesty because she was stealing from them. She said she was basically collecting a check and not working and had no motivation and disinterested in the work and it was dishonesty.

    Once again, not that I agreed with the decision but I really felt what compelled her. That didn't need to be explained to me, I understood it. She said that everyone said she was crazy to quit a good job and she didn't have anything else lined up and just take the money. The psychological and emotional component of her decision seemed to completely logical to me and was enough reason to me for it to be acted upon. Now the practical component of her decision wasn't too smart but she has someone to help her financially which cushoined the decision. The problem with this dynamic is we can completely coast on our respective feelings and the "feeling logic" can really get harebrained after awhile with no checks and balances. But I find that tends to happen generally with too many feelers.
    I understand this feeling. Thankfully I haven't had to decide between my morals and my bankbook yet. It would be an interesting struggle between what was right, my desire to function in society, and my dreams of living out in the woods.

    I don't mean to offend but the INFP males I've felt parental towards. I'm not going to deny there are some gender roles mixed up in here, but when I have the same relationship with a (INFP) female with a (INFP) male it feels like we're "girlfriends." If their Fi manifests differently I may not be recognizing some INFP males in my environment but the ones I do recognize as INFP feel cuddly to me. Now to some ENFJ females that's really appealing and cozy. But I want a partner in crime, so to speak, and I'm not really sure if an INFP male can fit that bill. I'm not looking for someone I have romantic interests in to open up and coax out of their shell. Platonically, I don't mind, but not romantically. The coaxing and drawing out part is what makes it feel parental to me. That cuddliness works well between an ENFJ male and INFP female, but not so much is what I'm looking for.
    You wouldn't happen to know how they grew up would you? I freeze up before the cuddly happens and you have to be decently close enough to me friend-wise for it to come out. I'm also more after the partner in crime rather than a mother or a daughter (I had a mother and she failed miserably and I'd rather have a partner to help out before I start dealing with children). I'm also happier to offer information based on relationship progression instead of having to hold back - something I've found I need to do just to remain acceptable in public.

    Also I think Fe and Fi wants things from each other. I may have said this before in other Fe/Fi interaction threads but I feel like Fi wants to get intimate and Fe wants to stay comfortable. Fe is structured to put up locks so that a relationship progresses along a linear path. We get to know each other first, we reciprocate information, we don't poke and prod until we've reached a certain point, we know where we stand in relation to each other, then after a certain point is passed, then the intimate part comes. I was watching Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind a few weeks ago and there was that part when Clementine took the chicken leg from Joel's plate and ate it. I thought to myself that is so Fi! She totally skipped a step. I'm not saying that Fe must progress down a path that cannot be deviated from but for me I can say to get "intimate" with someone that quickly throws me a bit. For me it's more of an internal "OH!" than an external because I'm all about the quick recovery.

    I think this is what is happening between Thessaly and her ENFJ. Aside from the fact that he just got out of relationship (which makes you a likely rebound) I would also guess that you're just dealing with the natural Fe/Fi interaction. Based on the information you've given I don't think he's fucking with you...you're the best judge of that we're just outsiders looking in.

    I don't think this is a bad thing because sometimes Fi can speed Fe up when Fe is being detrimentally structured. Likewise, Fe can structure Fi when it's getting too far in too fast. Also I think sometimes that Fi enjoys a vicarious living through Fe. I've always had a problem with Fi being the "deep" feeling and Fe that "shallow" feeling. Fe is expressive and I think sometimes Fi likes to roll around in it when it's good and get a rise out of it when it's bad. I think Fe admires the containment and inner peace that Fi can manifest externally. It can be calming.

    Uh, my thoughts just came to screeching halt but maybe more will come to me later.
    Dreams are best served manifest and tangible.

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    I accept no responsibility, what so ever, for the fact that I exist; I do, however, accept full responsibility for what I do while I exist.

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  6. #186
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Runkitty - you sew?? O.o [Renaissance Man alert]
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  7. #187
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PinkPiranha View Post
    Runkitty - you sew?? O.o [Renaissance Man alert]
    Yes, I just finished off some 16th century Japanese informal clothing last week. Not the best, but I haven't touched a sewing machine in a while. Why?
    Dreams are best served manifest and tangible.

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    I accept no responsibility, what so ever, for the fact that I exist; I do, however, accept full responsibility for what I do while I exist.

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  8. #188
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by runvardh View Post
    Yes, I just finished off some 16th century Japanese informal clothing last week. Not the best, but I haven't touched a sewing machine in a while. Why?
    Good heavens! I'm all admiration!
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
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  9. #189
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PinkPiranha View Post
    Good heavens! I'm all admiration!
    Eh, it happens after a while of needing to do things on your own.
    Dreams are best served manifest and tangible.

    INFP, 6w7, IEI

    I accept no responsibility, what so ever, for the fact that I exist; I do, however, accept full responsibility for what I do while I exist.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  10. #190
    Senior Member Jonathanthegreat's Avatar
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    ::looks above::

    i see enfj and infp love already!!!

    Thessaly: Be patient, he will like you as soon as this girl is gone from his mind.

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