[ENFJ] ENFJ & INFP

[Udog]

Yeah - it would have been much different if she wanted to try it instead of doing it because she thought it would make me happy

You do realize that's an impossible trap, right? Everytime I've seen someone with that attitude it turns out the same.

So she doesn't want to do it, and has two choices. If she decides to do it to try and make you happy, you punish her by taking away the very thing she was trying to obtain - intimacy. So instead, she decides not to do it. Well, guess what? You expressed that it's something you wanted, so over time you'll get increasingly resentful that she's not returning the favor. So what starts off as an initial victory becomes more and more of an issue over time. She loses, again.

The only way for her to win is to want to do it, but guess what? She can't really control that. She can only want to make you happy, and be willing to try it out as a means to accomplish it. But of course, that's not good enough.

She loses no matter what.

 

[Moiety]

Definitely not ENFP.

Why do you say that?

 

[Thursday]

If you can't handle someone wanting to give something to you it's your hang-up. I'd be happy some girl wanted to give me something as long as it wasn't objectionable to her. However, if she freaks out when I freely give for her happiness that doesn't compromise my morals, she can grow up or find someone less appreciative of her.

I know. She was the one that I took my guard down for.
Once she said
" So wait....you can help me but I can't help you? Do you know how unfair that is?" - I gave in.

 

[Udog]

Why do you say that?

Everytime I've been witness to it, the ENFP found it smothering and ran.

 

[Thursday]

You do realize that's an impossible trap, right? Everytime I've seen someone with that attitude it turns out the same.

So she doesn't want to do it, and has two choices. If she decides to do it to try and make you happy, you punish her by taking away the very thing she was trying to obtain - intimacy., So instead, she decides not to do it. Well, guess what? You expressed that it's something you wanted, so over time you'll get increasingly resentful that she's not returning the favor. So what starts off as an initial victory becomes more and more of an issue over time. She loses, again.

The only way for her to win is to want to do it, but guess what? She can't really control that. She can only want to make you happy, and be willing to try it out as a means to accomplish it. But of course, that's not good enough.

She loses no matter what.

I agree......but the bold part is invalid.
For me, if she doesn't want to do it, then she doesn't do it. Its not a need, its oral sex. She thought it would please me....when it didn't even cross my mind. Of course it was fine and dandy when receiving it.

 

[SciVo]

Maybe read some Dan Savage? Of course I'd say that since I'm an INFP, but still...

 

[Moiety]

Everytime I've been witness to it, the ENFP found it smothering and ran.

I see it pretty black and white (unlike most other things in life). You're either interested and it wouldn't register as smothering (relationships are paramount to ENFPs, or so the legend has it, right?), or you're not, which means you're not in love in the first place. Obviously being in love with someone means you already know, in part, what you like about that other person, which probably might already entail being given a certain degree of freedom, in the eyes of the ENFP.

 

[whimsical]

i fucking love this thread

 

[lost verses]

Everytime I've been witness to it, the ENFP found it smothering and ran.

Aw that's too bad...Hmmm. I don't think there's a single relationship that would work perfectly for the infp at least, if it was perfect, a lasting relationship, for the infp. I mean either they don't understand the infp and have these issues with them, or they get bored of the infp, OR...they're an s and irritate the infp.

But maybe I'm just being cynical these days lol

 

[Udog]

Aw that's too bad...Hmmm. I don't think there's a single relationship that would work perfectly for the infp at least, if it was perfect, a lasting relationship, for the infp. I mean either they don't understand the infp and have these issues with them, or they get bored of the infp, OR...they're an s and irritate the infp.

There is no such thing as a perfect relationship for any type, really. We are flawed people living in a flawed world. INFPs just tend to be one of the types most focused on a perfect love.

I can't speak for all INFPs, but for me, the closest to perfection I'll ever reach in a relationship is being able to find the beauty in as many of the flaws as possible.

I see it pretty black and white (unlike most other things in life). You're either interested and it wouldn't register as smothering (relationships are paramount to ENFPs, or so the legend has it, right?), or you're not, which means you're not in love in the first place. Obviously being in love with someone means you already know, in part, what you like about that other person, which probably might already entail being given a certain degree of freedom, in the eyes of the ENFP.

Fair point. I wasn't trying to say that ENFP-INFP couldn't work. I guess it boils down to the fact that I may be unfairly viewing the type of love that entails of 100% dedication to a partner, above all else, as a form of clinginess. I'm having a hard time seeing how that can be healthy, but again, perhaps that's just me.

 

[lost verses]

There is no such thing as a perfect relationship for any type, really. We are flawed people living in a flawed world. INFPs just tend to be one of the types most focused on a perfect love.

I disagree...I think that sensors in particular could have near perfect relationships. They don't try to obtain a certain level of perfection, and so then can be content with more options.

I kind of feel like you're more of a 'thinker' than a 'feeler'...

 

[Udog]

I disagree...I think that sensors in particular could have near perfect relationships. They don't try to obtain a certain level of perfection, and so then can be content with more options.

They simply have a different focus and have different needs and wants. How do you know they don't strive to obtain a certain level of perfection? What makes you think that their differing focus doesn't introduce a whole new blend of problems that us INFPs gloss over in search of a perfect love?

 

[Domino]

Last night, I was listening to Sarah McLachlan sing "Building a Mystery" and it struck me very forcefully... it sounded like an INFP woman singing about an ENFJ guy. Does anyone else relate to her description? I'm not a guy, but I saw something of myself in there.

*************

You come out at night
That's when the energy comes
And the dark side's light
And the vampires roam
You strut your rasta wear
And your suicide poem
And a cross from a faith that died
Before Jesus came
You're building a mystery

You live in a church
Where you sleep with voodoo dolls
And you won't give up the search
For the ghosts in the halls
You wear sandals in the snow
And a smile that won't wash away
Can you look out the window
Without your shadow getting in the way?

You're so beautiful
With an edge and charm
but so careful
When I'm in your arms

Cause you're working
Building a mystery
Holding on and holding it in
Yeah you're working
Building a mystery
And choosing so carefully

You woke up screaming aloud
A prayer from your secret god
You feed off our fears
And hold back your tears, oh
Give us a tantrum
And a know-it-all grin
Just when we need one
When the evening's thin

You're a beautiful
A beautiful fucked up man
You're setting up your
Razor wire shrine
And building a mystery...

 

[proteanmix]

^^

Those lyrics remind me of Neil LaBute, who I have a strong feeling is ENFJ.

Neil LaBute Has a Thing About Beauty

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/29/magazine/29LaBute-t.html?_r=1&ref=theater&pagewanted=all

 

[Thursday]

pink - yes

 

[Domino]

Good. It shook me rather hard, really resonated with me.

Protes - I followed your link, but got redirected!

 

[Udog]

Pink - the title is "Neil LaBute Has a Thing About Beauty". You can try going to NYTimes.com and copy-pasting the title in the search box up near the top.

And yeah, I can see an INFP writing something like that.

 

[Moiety]

Fair point. I wasn't trying to say that ENFP-INFP couldn't work. I guess it boils down to the fact that I may be unfairly viewing the type of love that entails of 100% dedication to a partner, above all else, as a form of clinginess. I'm having a hard time seeing how that can be healthy, but again, perhaps that's just me.

Dedication also means ability to compromise or forego gratification (this need to cling). Dedication means acknowledging the type of person your partner is and trying to adapt to that. It goes both ways obviously.

 

[Goatman455]

I really agree with the people who have said that ENFJs want to know everything about you, but don't want to reveal much themselves. I've had a couple ENFJ friends, and they're so fun to talk to, and I just find myself telling them everything and we're having this great conversation and then when it ends I realize I've told them everything about myself and they've somehow avoided revealing anything about themselves.
Interestingly enough, one of my ENFJ friends says that he likes self-absorbed girls. I think its because he doesn't have to let any of his own information slip as long as the convo is focused on her.

HaHa, I am an ENFP and I find this same thing about ENFJs. I call to ask about them, they ask me about me, 10 minutes later I am like "Wait, I have been talking and you haven't said a word"

"......."

is the usual response, lol.


Pry it out of them, ENFJs actually like to talk when they feel like they aren't going to be judged for it negatively.

 

[lamp]

HaHa, I am an ENFP and I find this same thing about ENFJs. I call to ask about them, they ask me about me, 10 minutes later I am like "Wait, I have been talking and you haven't said a word"

Pry it out of them, ENFJs actually like to talk when they feel like they aren't going to be judged for it negatively.