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  1. #41
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    I agree with so much of what each and every previous poster said here. And this makes me kind of

    As for myself, it actually depends on the people who have been granted the chance to get close to me. I test people too. And too much for my own good.

    Just as aphrodite-gone-awry said about the 3 strikes, it is all about strike 3 and you're out for me as well. You're out for this time. Sure, I might still let you try again but it's going to be twice as hard the next time.

    And this could be called a "problem". Maybe it is about having too high standards. I expect a lot from people (and it actually isn't something unrealistic that cannot be reached by everybody), and I expect even more from myself. And I know that once I'm in, I'm in for good. But if others fail to show that they're prepared to be in it for good as well, things just wither away. Something is just broken after that.

    I agree with what the OP wondered about the INFJ's:
    Quote Originally Posted by YoungGun2112 View Post
    Is it a tendency to not believe that people care enough to be let close?
    At least when it comes to myself, I don't believe that people care enough but it still doesn't stop me trying to find out whether they actually might. And here come the tests again...
    It's a vicious cycle

  2. #42
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sky is BLUE! View Post
    I agree with so much of what each and every previous poster said here. And this makes me kind of

    As for myself, it actually depends on the people who have been granted the chance to get close to me. I test people too. And too much for my own good.

    Just as aphrodite-gone-awry said about the 3 strikes, it is all about strike 3 and you're out for me as well. You're out for this time. Sure, I might still let you try again but it's going to be twice as hard the next time.

    And this could be called a "problem". Maybe it is about having too high standards. I expect a lot from people (and it actually isn't something unrealistic that cannot be reached by everybody), and I expect even more from myself. And I know that once I'm in, I'm in for good. But if others fail to show that they're prepared to be in it for good as well, things just wither away. Something is just broken after that.

    I agree with what the OP wondered about the INFJ's:


    At least when it comes to myself, I don't believe that people care enough but it still doesn't stop me trying to find out whether they actually might. And here come the tests again...
    It's a vicious cycle

    bolded is so true.

    i have some f/u from my earlier post. that enfp friend kept trying to get together with me and showed lots of interest in me. so i acquiesced and started doing more with her recently. our families get along great too, which is a bonus. so, anyway, as i was doing more with her, (and she started getting to know my quirks, like not liking to talk on the phone) i started letting her 'in' more. just being my weird self. funny but in a wacky way. but i also have some deep intense ways about me and i think in an alternative way. i was basically giving back and opening up a bit to her, cuz i figured she was sticking around, so why not?

    well. i don't know if it's something i said, haha, or if she's moved on to her enfp latest adventure, but she's not quite so eager to see me anymore. just a month ago she was moving heaven and earth to be where i was, but now she has excuses. i get the feeling she's sort-of explored who i am and decided she doesn't really dig me like she thought she would. or it, more likely, is about her meeting another person since she met me, and making THAT other woman her new biggest interest. i feel kinda used or something. do enfps do that?

    so, now i'm irritated a bit because i did open up to her somewhat--let her in more than i would have had i known she'd just end up moving on to someone else (which is kinda weird) and ignoring me somewhat. or maybe i'm just being impatient, which is possible. but, it's like, once i let you in, you're in, and i'm probably not going to kick you out unless you do years worth of irritating things to me. and if you decide you then want out (after i've started letting you really in) that feels like rejection to me.

    doesn't everyone else feel like this?

    i just read somewhere infj have it difficult because (was it samvega's thread?--that is an awesome thread, btw) infj have high standards for people and relationships, i.e. people usually suck and take a big shat on you haha, yet, because of Fe we NEED people.

    so we try, get burned, recoil, try again. over and over again. one loop for me takes a year or two. so, depending on where a non-infj interacts with an infj in that loop can explain an infj (at least mine) actions and moods.
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  3. #43
    Senior Member whimsical's Avatar
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    Because we want to know it is safe. We want to know what the person is all about before we commit to them fully. If we do think that there is potential for a good relationship by observation of that person in our time spent with them, then it becomes easier to commit. However we do not want to commit if we suspect that the person is phony, not going to be a good friend and etc.
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  4. #44
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    so, now i'm irritated a bit because i did open up to her somewhat--let her in more than i would have had i known she'd just end up moving on to someone else (which is kinda weird) and ignoring me somewhat. or maybe i'm just being impatient, which is possible. but, it's like, once i let you in, you're in, and i'm probably not going to kick you out unless you do years worth of irritating things to me. and if you decide you then want out (after i've started letting you really in) that feels like rejection to me.

    doesn't everyone else feel like this?
    I know what you mean there. For me, ultimately it's about acceptance. Yes I know I'm weird... but if you're going to say something dumb about it or think it has a negative impact on me then there's no point in me letting you close. What's been said before... testing and check points. I go through many those unconsciously. I guess it's a stringent set of tests because I'll be there analyzing every single one of your action. (although you likely don't realize it) What you think, how you act must mesh with mine for me to try opening up. No, this does not mean constant agreement, only that you share similar principles as I. It's not something you can fake through because the check is always running. Unconscious behaviour will leak through and be picked up. Once you've gotten past it all, you're in. And once you're in, it's difficult for me to lock you out again. Perhaps it's just potential damage control that the checks are so stringent... so far I've only let 2 person in completely.

    i just read somewhere infj have it difficult because (was it samvega's thread?--that is an awesome thread, btw) infj have high standards for people and relationships, i.e. people usually suck and take a big shat on you haha, yet, because of Fe we NEED people.
    This I don't agree with. I have high standards for myself. I'm always questioning whether I'm "good enough" because it never feels like I am. For people in general though I'm a great deal more slack. The only exception being whom I open up to. But that's only because I see them like myself, and therefore I apply standards for myself to them.
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  5. #45
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    @aphrodite

    Hi Aphrodite, another infj here. Reading your post today reminds me a bit of my own IRL ENFP. I doubt it had anything to do with what you said. Some other person tickled your friend's fancy and off the frisky puppy runs after that new bone!

    I've learned that if I wanted to keep this INFJ-ENFP friendship alive, to take it neither too seriously nor too personally and to take it real slow. The ENFP will NEVER be lacking for friends and invitations and will always be off to some great adventure. Then, sure enough he/she will come back to tell you all about it if he/she likes you enough. Prepare to be entertained or prepare to be jealous, depending...Chances are he/she will have told half a dozen people about it already! So, if you want to be that special person in their lives, forget it. They have half a dozen if not more 'special persons' supposedly 'contributing to their personal growth', etc, etc or being their special audience, bleh.

    Take the friendship lightly and slowly enough and he/she will pull you along on the next adventure/trip. You'd get to tap into that spontaneous side of you that rarely comes out. Start getting jealous and miffed and your ENFP backs off and you're the poorer for it. Anything that looks like control or confronting them with their fickleness is a turn-off.

    Yes, it sometimes feel like we're just teddy bears to be taken out only when the ENFP wants comfort or to have a sounding board for personal issues. Be prepared to have a HUGE heart and an easy-going manner for those big kids! It's up to you to decide whether you think they are worth it or emotionally TOO high-maintenance. You'll get disconcerted by how much of them is 'public' when so much of you is 'private'. A side of them never grows up. I know for a fact. I got two IRL ENFP and do they take lots of emotional energy! One is retired and my own kin and the other is about my age.

    So on those off-days when they are happily exploring other friendships and running after this and that, be very GRATEFUL and take the time to RECHARGE. Soon enough they'll come looking for their rock of stability ! (and don't we make good listeners!)... Again the best recipe to NOT feel taken for granted or irritated is to listen with half an ear...

    As for them losing interest in you and finding our quieter selves rather dull, never fear. They are attracted to brainy types and INFJ can be brainy. Don't we have many layers (like they say)? Just don't hurry too much in showing them all!!! Learn to make your mysterious side work for you. Also, watch them perk up when suddenly some day you reveal some hidden side of yours after they thought they had you all figured out! They may even complain that they tell you 'so much but you never do'... Take it very slow would be my advice. If they seem to open up fully, don't reciprocate as much. Open up only half-way! NOTHING about themselves is taboo. They self-disclose things that you would blush disclosing! So don't think that when they are opening up, it is such a big deal. They do that with lots of other people, you'd be surprised. But they want all their listeners 'to keep mum about it' (!?)...

    Although they seem fickle, they do give you their full attention when they are with you and are storing it up. Careful with those secrets or those quirks. Next time you confront them about something, they will use it against you. Then you'll feel hurt and mope that in this friendship/relationship you're the one who likes/loves/gives more... And that cannot be proven.

    Lest I have offended the ENFPs reading this, let me hurry to say that every time I think that I love my ENFPs dearly, both my kin and my friend. But I am not blind and I can see the areas where I have had to work to make the relationship/friendship work. If I had to wait for my butterflies to get grounded, I'd wait forever! So fire on, I am sticking by what I just wrote! Yes there are times when I wonder whether it is really worth it. But then, I have put in a lot of work (emotional energy and all ) in it and don't like to give up on something I have worked on inasmuch as it depends on me.

    And oh, Aphrodite, invest of yourself a bit more in some kind of rewarding work, so as to have LESS time for those ENFP. Bury yourself in some work. That always helps next time you feel a bit moody and miffed towards your ENFP and you know that airing it out will not work with these borderline narcissists. Sorry dear, I am really tired, lot of work you know... That should do the trick. Get them to learn to PLAN a bit more some time with you instead of all those impromptu visits and phone calls late at night or first thing in the morning.

    Would I doorslam an ENFP? Maybe... I think that I'd tip-toe out of their lives rather than make a big doorslam. Not to spoil their party. I once took a sabbatical from the friendship and it was hardly noticed... That's just to say how tenuous any friendship can be, early days or not...

    Good luck Aphrodite.

  6. #46
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    we absorb everythign around us, chameleon-esque. unless we are really super healthy the environment always impacts us very very much (to a greater degree than than many other types), the desires and attitudes and impressions of others impact us, we use them to place ourselves and locate basic context to navigate the meaning of our experience symbolically.

    we don't let people in bc we are afraid of having our truest selves rejected or done violence to or on the wrong side of something injurious. we just go slow for protection and self-preservation. bc when we open up we can feel exposed and defenseless to the big waves of Fe that can come crashing down.

    we get better at balancing and going with the flow by creating positive environments and strong stable attachments to keep us buoyant/afloat. but we go slow and feel out the connections that underlie these things bc we know how complex the webs that make up social fabric always are.

  7. #47
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    well. i don't know if it's something i said, haha, or if she's moved on to her enfp latest adventure, but she's not quite so eager to see me anymore. just a month ago she was moving heaven and earth to be where i was, but now she has excuses. i get the feeling she's sort-of explored who i am and decided she doesn't really dig me like she thought she would. or it, more likely, is about her meeting another person since she met me, and making THAT other woman her new biggest interest. i feel kinda used or something. do enfps do that?
    I think it may be an ExxP thing in general. I have an ENTP friend who is similar.
    I have recently decided I must be low on his 'friend tier' or something, simply because I often don't hear back from him, then all of a sudden we'll do something and it's great, then he drops off the face of the earth for a while...it's kinda difficult, as I'm not that way at all.

    One of my other friends who also knows him says that she thinks whoever he's around, he's with....otherwise he sorta forgets about you. You have to be in his face, almost. I'm like.... That sort of rubs me the wrong way.

    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in
    we don't let people in bc we are afraid of having our truest selves rejected or done violence to or on the wrong side of something injurious. we just go slow for protection and self-preservation. bc when we open up we can feel exposed and defenseless to the big waves of Fe that can come crashing down.

    we get better at balancing and going with the flow by creating positive environments and strong stable attachments to keep us buoyant/afloat. but we go slow and feel out the connections that underlie these things bc we know how complex the webs that make up social fabric always are.


    I agree with others that once I really trust someone I have no problem being open and vulnerable. But it's a process to get there. The 'testing' aspect and feeling people out is something that resonates with me. Part of that may be unconscious, like others have said. I always want to know the other persons' 'true self' though - their natural preferences and way of being without the influence of myself -- so that may be another reason I test/probe.

    Yeah, past hurts and rejections do play into my taking things slow with people. Also over time I've learned of the fickle nature of many (including myself at times! ha!), so that's another reason I may take things slowly.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  8. #48
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    we also travel along the webs well before we actually get there. explore a myriad of possible connections in every relationship before they happen. weird kind of rehearsal dinner. hi, nice to meet you. my name is...

  9. #49
    "Everything in its place" fill's Avatar
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    This 'problem' started with me as a child. When I would throw out ideas to others, they were quickly shot down by unimaginative adults, and because of this I would only reveal my genius to those who would truly appreciate it. Those people usually ended up being my very close friends. Those who were quick to put me down only discouraged my efforts and hurt my imaginative power. So I introverted.

    Because I'm so cautious to whom I give out my ideas to, not that many people can appreciate how truly artistic/imaginative/philosophical I really am, making my exterior attitude rather uninteresting, but as much as I introvert my intuition, a little of it always comes out, and when people notice this, they're puzzled to why I look so normal yet act so differently.

    It's hard to get close to people because of the fear of being rejected for my different way of thinking, but there are always those potential people that I don't know well but think may prove to be great assets in the future due to their greater sense of the world and its many possibilities. I act towards these people like I act towards a crush, really. Not with the same intention, but, still, with the same exterior motivation. I've noticed this especially confuses people of the other gender. :p
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  10. #50
    nevermore lane777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by istina View Post

    If she does get to a point where she starts sharing a little bit with you, ask questions. Try to understand the whole picture. A lot of times I'll share something with someone, but I won't give them the entire picture or how I felt about it unless they ask. Asking lets me know that they really do care enough to know what I have to share.
    Ooooh yes the baiting game.

    Quote Originally Posted by istina View Post

    The great thing about INFJs is that we really long to find someone to tell everything to. We're not likely to hold back anything when you've proven yourself worthy. So, be genuine, show interest, and stick to her long enough and you might get to that point.
    I've only experienced this kind of openness with 2 people. One of them new absolutely everything - the best and worst of me, I held nothing back. I doubt I'll find another as trustworthy as her
    To die would be an awfully big adventure - Peter Pan

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