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[MBTI General] INFJs and their F

entropie

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So I have been wondering about a thing now for quite some time. According to Socionics the INFJ got basically a Fi - Ne combo. But according to mbti its supposed to be Ni - Fe.

Me being totally sucky at interpreting the wide variety of ethics thats is shown in a F-type, as compared to the small amount that's shown in a T-type, I cant really decide, which one should be true.

I am inclined to say I am convinced like 60% that it is Fi-Ne . At least it feels that way, but as I said: more data is needed !
 

Lauren Ashley

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I tend to agree with Socionics descriptions of INFj. But I'm positive I lead with Ni (in the MBTI sense). Furthermore, the way that Fi and Ne are described in Socionics sounds like Fe and Ni. For example, in the EII (INFj) description, EII's use of Fi is explained as:

EIIs are very attuned to the psychological atmosphere of interaction and to their own feelings towards people and things. They treasure deep feelings of attachment and strive to deepen emotional bonds between people and harmonize relationships. When those people that the EII is close to suffer emotionally, the EII will do everything in her power to raise the emotional condition in the individual, often at the EII's expense.

Sounds like Fe, with a bit of Ni.

EIIs have a natural understanding of people's inner makeup and see what can be done with that makeup to bring them closer to ideals. EIIs have a very well-developed view of what people and relationships should be like and are able to help others reach those ideals.

EIIs understand people very well. They often give good advice, and have a strong understanding of the inner workings of even the most complicated minds. They have well developed ideas concerning ideal emotional states for individuals, and always have advice as to how an individual can reach that ideal.

One of the largest complaints of EIIs revolve around the idea of "wasted potential." A lot of their neuroses, and "drive," come from fears that they are not achieving the maximum possible ideal in a certain field or area of life. Unlike IEEs, though, EIIs consider "leveraging potential" more in terms of depth - mastery of one or several specific areas - rather than breadth.

Sounds like Ni-Fe.
 
G

garbage

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The function definitions for MBTI and Socionics are different.

How exactly? I'm not sure.

My INFP is probably a Socionics SEI (ISFp). I seem to be ENTP and ILE (ENTp).
 

entropie

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Ya exactly, that's my problem too. The wikisonicon description sounds like the thing in mbti terms, making a possible difference between N and F oblivious and appearing more like the INFJ tend to merge the functions. Meaning what the one says about the Fi, the other says is the result of the combination of Ni + Fe.

Well thats not really important to know for me at all, cause my INFJ is such a different person than I am, what I love and what leaves me incapable of being able to precisely point out whether its Fe or Fi showing, cause I can be a total stranger to her world.

I was hoping that you may have some profound insight into the matter, which could solve this problem, which only exists on the paper. But I think we are in the same boat, when it comes to reasoning with the issue.
 

entropie

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Socionics INFj is MBTI INFP.

That doesnt do the trick for me, cause socionics has got an infp too. Therefore assuming that would defy the original logic of the concept. Just doesnt do the trick for me. In a subjective manner I agree with you, but I want to understand what they said on the paper. And if I wont find out soon, I am pretty sure I am gonna dumb all concepts, concentrating on what I know again :)
 

Lauren Ashley

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Ya exactly, that's my problem too. The wikisonicon description sounds like the thing in mbti terms, making a possible difference between N and F oblivious and appearing more like the INFJ tend to merge the functions. Meaning what the one says about the Fi, the other says about the combination of Ni + Fe.

Socionics seems closer to Jungian descriptions, FWIW. But it's really all semantics. Whether you are saying Fi or Fe, they mean similar attitudes in the two theories.
 

entropie

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Ok. Then there is really only one thing left to say.

Never tell a thinker about typology. The lack of coherencies really leads to obsession -.- :D
 

Silent Stars

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I tend to agree with Socionics descriptions of INFj. But I'm positive I lead with Ni (in the MBTI sense). Furthermore, the way that Fi and Ne are described in Socionics sounds like Fe and Ni. For example, in the EII (INFj) description, EII's use of Fi is explained as:



Sounds like Fe, with a bit of Ni.



Sounds like Ni-Fe.
Yeah, the EII description fits me perfectly. I've read over the IEI description before, and not even half of it fits, and the rest isn't close at all.
 

Lauren Ashley

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Ok. Then there is really only one thing left to say.

Never tell a thinker about typology. The lack of coherencies really leads to obsession -.- :D

They're consistent in that they both add up to the same types. If you read the cumulative INFj profile, you will have little doubt that what they're describing is INFJ. Confusion only arises when one knows about functions and tries mapping one on to the other.
 

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That doesnt do the trick for me, cause socionics has got an infp too. Therefore assuming that would defy the original logic of the concept. Just doesnt do the trick for me. In a subjective manner I agree with you, but I want to understand what they said on the paper. And if I wont find out soon, I am pretty sure I am gonna dumb all concepts, concentrating on what I know again :)


They just think differently about what J and P mean. If I read Socionics I find it helpful to just forget about MBTI and use the letters like ELI and such. I simply don't try to compare to MBTI, because it is two different systems.
 

entropie

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They're consistent in that they both add up to the same types. If you read the cumulative INFj profile, you will have little doubt that what they're describing is INFJ. Confusion only arises when one knows about functions and tries mapping one on to the other.

Ya I know that. I know aswell that you cant give people functions or anything.

I think I cant explain to you what my problem is, I am like in need of a theory to be coherent and to make sense, so I can accept it. If someone i.e. says: there is communism and their is capitalism. And then he says the combination of em both is the best social form, cause everyone on its own sucks, I can understand that.

But in typology terms there is no name for a combined system of mbti and socionics, its only communism and capitalism. I now can say, I am gonna pick out the best of them and merge them to that degree they fit with my reality. Which is prolly the only healthy thing to do. But when it comes to things like for example the INFJ and F issue, you cant merge it.

Everything after that would be real psychology and empathy and such things and my problem is just, I cant graps it cause I just cant. I dont have the ability to make that much compromise, I need to see a pattern behind things.

And yeah thats prolly why I should have never started to thing about the shit in the 1st place. Only thing thats left to me now is to say: ok things are that way, you have on the one hand yourself who is as a Fi type very protective and loyal about his feelings and you have on the other hand the Fe type, who is more concerned in producing comfort for others.

And then I look at my infj and I see her going on rambling about alot of people but then on the other hand enjoying their company in being a good host. Its like she knows them both Fi + Fe and thats prolly true or not cause I lack the understanding of the function.

You see, my thoughts have became erradic. Cause I will not understand the type systems any further, cause now I reached a dead end with logic. Meaning I know either settle on the things I am good at or start trieing to understand the type system again and again and again.

I have decided on staieing with the things I can do, its just it bugs you, if you notice, you have reached a dead end cause your abilities are insufficient.
 

entropie

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Thanks for your answers tho. I think tho, this is a problem I have to better figure out on my own first. Running in circles is a bad thing at all and then if you want to squeeze even more input into it you will gonna shoot yourself in the end.
 

Lauren Ashley

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I now can say, I am gonna pick out the best of them and merge them to that degree they fit with my reality. Which is prolly the only healthy thing to do.
If that helps assuage your cognitive dissonance, do it ;)

But when it comes to things like for example the INFJ and F issue, you cant merge it.
You don't have to. Because in the two systems they are described in similar ways. So this...

Only thing thats left to me now is to say: ok things are that way, you have on the one hand yourself who is as a Fi type very protective and loyal about his feelings and you have on the other hand the Fe type, who is more concerned in producing comfort for others.
is not needed. Call what INFJs use Pi or gooeyness if you want. All roads lead to Rome, or the reason why INFJs are INFJs instead of INTJs.

There is also the thought that many INFJs (and other types) use both Fe and Fi (in MBTI). So that could be a problem you're running into as well.

I have decided on staieing with the things I can do, its just it bugs you, if you notice, you have reached a dead end cause your abilities are insufficient.
Ha. I don't think this has anything to do with your abilities. Many people are confused on the Socionics/MBTI conflict.

Here, have a hug :hug:

Or a beer. I know you love those even more.
 

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One thing about a lot of us here is that we want to find some system to understand ourselves, other people and how it all fits together and maybe that's just something that's impossible. Human nature won't fit logical systems.
 

entropie

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One thing about a lot of us here is that we want to find some system to understand ourselves, other people and how it all fits together and maybe that's just something that's impossible. Human nature won't fit logical systems.

Ya that's a thing I yet have to learn in life.
 

entropie

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Ok But now lets continue writing silly shit in the porn forums, I am feeling embarassed already by this thread :D
 

entropie

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I just planned to myself on my way to the gas station to get new beer, one day in the next two days I am gonna come for you over the ocean to visit you and I am gonna bring my INFJ with me :). That will be a huge undertaking involving a lot of precious ressource planning but when it happens and it will happen !, we gonna meet somewhere and discuss those things here in person again :)
 
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