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  1. #11
    12 and a half weeks BerberElla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattC333 View Post

    I'm going round in circles 'I understand he's of work but it's only a day...But it IS his career so this should be fine, its ok...BUT it's CHARITY so he should blah blah' *repeat until head implodes.
    Haha I know what you mean about the continuous loop of "yes but, no but, yes but, no but" lol I have a totally different situation going on in my head, yet equally related about a close friend of mine.

    Can't make up my mind if I understand her motivations, or if I think it's judgement time.
    Echo - "So are you trying to say she is Evil"

    DeWitt - "Something far worse, she's an Idealist"

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  2. #12
    Member MattC333's Avatar
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    Do you find it was the WAY he gave his answer as opposed to the actual response?

    It was that way for me, I'd probably have just shrugged it off and not worried otherwise.
    Never stick your d*ck in pudding...You can spend all day talking about how great it is but no-one will eat it 'cos you stuck your d*ck in it!!!

    "Does it involve wanton destruction?"
    "We can only hope"

  3. #13
    movin melodies kiddykat's Avatar
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    It gets to me too!

    I think what it boils down to? Is a lack of genuineness/sincerity. It makes me a bit upset, only because in my mind, I think that when people say/act out in such a way.. they're not being true to who they are but what they think they should be.

    They act out of ignorance as a way to justify their own actions in order to downplay others' emotions.. just so that they can have a few ounces of happiness, which in turn, isn't true happiness.

    True happiness stems from the fact that we 'choose' to do what we want to do, because it makes us and the other person happy, and no amount of money can really buy that.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Nonsensical's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattC333 View Post
    ...angry and manipulative when people don't do something that you believe to be a good cause?

    I've got a best mate who's an audio-visual wizard. I'm working with someone on organising a massive fundraiser for CF (which he has) and want to arrange a massive music event for it.

    I've asked my friend to do either the audio or visual and his reaction was 'well I might have paid work on, so may not be able to do it...'

    This blew my top...I actually told him if he didn't think charity work was more important than what the f**k is the point of doing any work? We should be putting our skills to good use, not thinking about money all the time. This is a one off gig and you're more worried about getting paid? You're a selfish **** for thinking that way, I can't believe you!!!

    He's not too happy with me but said he'll do it IF he's not working.

    Do any other ENFPs get like this? I really did lose it...to me, charity does take precedence, I'm only asking for a small amount of his time and I'm surprised at his lack of concern. He's one of my best friends because he is so morally upright, this is out of character for him and I'm not impressed. :S I probably shouldn't have lost it though, he's right to have the choice and say no, but I really thought he'd care...

    Holy shit. You and I are exactly alike. I do the same thing all of the time, no lie, it must be a Male ENFP thing.

    I guess we just need to see more meaning from within, and take time to decipher why people do things we don't agree with- there is usually a reason, but our F makes it really hard, and we get angry.
    Is it that by its indefiniteness it shadows forth the heartless voids and immensities of the universe, and thus stabs us from behind with the thought of annihilation, when beholding the white depths of the milky way?

  5. #15
    Member MattC333's Avatar
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    Haha, nice one One

    Yeah, maybe. Do friends know you for having a portable soapbox??

    If I get up on an issue I go ballistic and start ranting how unjust something is or stupid and carry on proving just how much so it is. Then start pointing out how to improve things.
    Never stick your d*ck in pudding...You can spend all day talking about how great it is but no-one will eat it 'cos you stuck your d*ck in it!!!

    "Does it involve wanton destruction?"
    "We can only hope"

  6. #16

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    I'm very live and let live. It's people's choice if they be moral campaigners or not. On the other hand if someone directly undermines someone else, or manipulates and controls them I tend to have quite strong opinions on it. I'd probably be annoyed with something in his attitude to charity more than the fact he could get paid work instead. I love the idea of maximising profit, minimising work.
    Freude, schöner Götterfunken Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heiligtum! Deine Zauber binden wieder Was die Mode streng geteilt; Alle Menschen werden Brüder, Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Coeur's Avatar
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    My last boyfriend was an ENFP and he was very manipulative. He always did it out of the best of intentions, but it still was a problem. He wouldn't take no for an answer and he'd play the guilt card a lot.

  8. #18
    Junior Member Mr.Dude's Avatar
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    Well, as for me, I do what I can to NOT be manipulative. I feel it takes genuineness out of people when you do such things. Haha, although, I DO have my times where I know I'm good at it, and want to use it... soooo, I do. Ugh.

    And I guess if I were in your situation, I would get a lil angry myself. From what I hear, he's pretty well off financially, so I would go with the logic of,'Quit being so selfish trying to make so much dang money and do something for someone else for a change!' But yes, I wouldn't say such things out loud for fear of conflict I suppose. But OHHHH would I be thinking it!
    [SIGPIC]I plays the guitar.[/SIGPIC]

  9. #19
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    So you are upset he told you he might have other responsiblities he would have to attend to at the time? Why should he have to ignore his responsibilities because you thought you knew better what he should be doing? Or he could have said yes but had to blow your gig off at the last minute. I must be missing something.

  10. #20
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    Hey Matt, maybe I have a lot more down and out kinda friends but generally when someone says "I need to get paid and I'm prioritizing work" that's the end of the story.

    I'm actually really surprised to hear you felt justified in your anger and your outburst towards your friend.

    Though it does remind me of another friend of mine. He runs an events company and does fundraisers and I think he is some kind of EF. He is generally very nice and well liked but he turns into a MILITANT when it comes to getting "suggested donations". He literally will not let people come into the event without paying - that is not a "donation"!

    Someone paid 1/2 the suggested the donation at the door and he made their friend pay the other part!

    Personally, I think that is all outrageous behavior since part of doing fundraising and "community work" is being mindful and respectful of where people are financially and you know, the actual community. That is why it is called a "sliding scale donation".

    I can understanding wanting to do the best for the cause or group you have selected to help, but you can't lose sight of the bigger picture and the fact that your priorities are not necessarily other people's priorities nor do they have to be.

    I do understand feeling like someone is being selfish or being disappointed in them, but in this case I think your friend's response that he is prioritizing getting paid and may have another gig lined up - that makes a lot of sense.

    Also, creative professionals often get underpaid and are undervalued for their work. I think creative professionals and even those who do a lot of community work get taken advantage of.

    For myself in my organizing, I think it's important that actors, DJs, workshop presenters, etc. get paid for their time. I have been involved in organizing events where people complained that a presenter actually wanted to get *paid* because if they really "cared" then they would do it for free. Another conflict ensued because some DJs I secured for an event I coordianted donated their services and were still asked to pay the cover to the event they volunteered at because "everyone has to pay". It was kinda ridiculous IMO and they refused to ever help again because they felt their time and services were so disrespected. That community group I worked with changed their policy after that.

    My response to all this is that if we really care about the community and equality and strengthening community and really manifesting the beliefs that fuel our charity/organizing work - that means we have to show *respect* and value people in our community by paying people a fair amount an valuing where they are coming from. Respect for all and fairness is a foundation for the philosophy of charitable work

    Then again, the community work I've traditionally done has centered on immigrant, GLBT, female, and other minority groups that don't have a lot of resources, infrastructure, or money.

    Just my 3 cents.
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