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  1. #11
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Most people are inclined to state this in absolute terms "Cheating is cheating is cheating," but I'm not so certain about this (though I've never been that close to someone, either).

    I think it would depend on the circumstances. I would probably be somewhat more forgiving if it were someone they'd had a past relationship with (those feelings could probably linger dormant for a long time and resurface intensely), for instance, than if it were someone new or random.

    It would also depend on why I felt they had done it. If it were for gratification, or to fill an unfulfilled need, then that would be the worst case. If I felt they had just lost themselves to the moment and their affection for the person, I'd be more forgiving of that as well. Note that I would probably simply trust my gut reaction to figure this out, rather than their words or any reasoning process, though.

    Then again, perhaps I'm mistaken and some instinct in people kicks in during relationships that makes this seem absolutely wrong to them under all possible circumstances, regardless of whether they'd say so outside of the situation.

  2. #12
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    I could forgive, but I wouldn't forget. It would always be lingering in my mind... "Are they cheating on me right now?" etc. I would be unable to trust them... and if I can't trust someone then I can't be in a relationship. There would just be something off, something that wouldn't feel right, and the relationship would be totally ruined.
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  3. #13
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    It's apparent that I'm greatly generalizing here, so bear with me.

    I struggle to fully forgive people in cases like these, especially if they've shown a past history of this behavior. Although some individuals' struggles are greater than others, and though these issues may be the underlying cause of their behavior, it's possible to break the cycle of whatever issues are being faced, turning these issues into a possibility for self-improvement. It just takes work. Those who refuse to put in the appropriate effort to change cannot be forced to do otherwise.

    And thus, I can understand, but I still find it difficult to forgive.. especially to the point of letting them back in.

    It's unfortunate, since I can usually see the issue from their perspective. But I can't act for them. It's almost as if I'm watching a movie unfold from a first-person perspective, struggling because I can't influence how the character acts. I just cannot get the character to avoid the situation he's about to get himself into

  4. #14
    The Duchess of Oddity Queen Kat's Avatar
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    I'd cheat as well. Then we're even.
    I was sitting outside the classroom waiting to go in, and I saw an airplane hit the tower. The TV was obviously on. I used to fly myself and I said, "There's one terrible pilot."
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  5. #15
    Self sustaining supernova Zoom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Most people are inclined to state this in absolute terms "Cheating is cheating is cheating," but I'm not so certain about this (though I've never been that close to someone, either).

    I think it would depend on the circumstances. I would probably be somewhat more forgiving if it were someone they'd had a past relationship with (those feelings could probably linger dormant for a long time and resurface intensely), for instance, than if it were someone new or random.

    It would also depend on why I felt they had done it. If it were for gratification, or to fill an unfulfilled need, then that would be the worst case. If I felt they had just lost themselves to the moment and their affection for the person, I'd be more forgiving of that as well. Note that I would probably simply trust my gut reaction to figure this out, rather than their words or any reasoning process, though.

    Then again, perhaps I'm mistaken and some instinct in people kicks in during relationships that makes this seem absolutely wrong to them under all possible circumstances, regardless of whether they'd say so outside of the situation.
    That's the problem, though - it is wrong. I know that some on here might disagree with or try and debate that doing it in retaliation, or because temptation is sometimes too great that it is all right... but that doesn't make it okay. It's a breach of trust if you are in a monogamous relationship, unless you have agreed to have a somewhat open one. Trust is crucial, important beyond belief - because everything in a relationship is based on each other, their actions and words... if you can't trust that, it's so difficult to move forward or really give them your whole self.

    Also, if someone cheats it normally points to some other problem that has been allowed to fester, not resolved properly. Like the first response put so well.

    And it feels so horrible to be lied to, when it is someone you love.

  6. #16
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Most people are inclined to state this in absolute terms "Cheating is cheating is cheating," but I'm not so certain about this (though I've never been that close to someone, either).

    I think it would depend on the circumstances. I would probably be somewhat more forgiving if it were someone they'd had a past relationship with (those feelings could probably linger dormant for a long time and resurface intensely), for instance, than if it were someone new or random.

    It would also depend on why I felt they had done it. If it were for gratification, or to fill an unfulfilled need, then that would be the worst case. If I felt they had just lost themselves to the moment and their affection for the person, I'd be more forgiving of that as well. Note that I would probably simply trust my gut reaction to figure this out, rather than their words or any reasoning process, though.

    Then again, perhaps I'm mistaken and some instinct in people kicks in during relationships that makes this seem absolutely wrong to them under all possible circumstances, regardless of whether they'd say so outside of the situation.
    I just read through this thread, not intending to reply as it's addressed to the NF's, but this reply stunned me because it's EXACTLY the opposite of what I'd say and I'm utterly amazed at how completely differently people can see the world!!
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  7. #17
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    i just don't have any set rules about this sort of thing. it would depend on the strength and importance of the relationship and how it made me feel and the circumstances surrounding it. i've never been with someone who cheated or even seemed capable of it but...no...i would never make myself forgive anything out of love...i would have to truly forgive and understand what happened and commit to fixing it together.
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  8. #18
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Agree with what fidelia said.

    It's not about whether you can forgive the person for cheating on you. It's about WHY the person chose to cheat. There's something wrong with the relationship if there's cheating going on. You can either try to work that out... or take the easier/more sensible route and walk out.
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  9. #19
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruthie View Post
    Nope. I don't think it's particularly hard to "not cheat." Just an act of selfishness, narcissism and disloyalty. All the potential excuses just seem so whiny.
    i find a lot of angles in this question. i'm going to type them out but i kind of want you to just Te tear what i say apart and simplify it for me.

    the first is the question of what a relationship is SUPPOSED to be. what makes sense for relationships, how that fits into individual human beings having fulfilling lives and developing themselves and their desires in ways they see rewarding and meaningful. i struggle to understand if the idea of monogamy is ultimately one of those like taboo ideas that you just have to accept at face value to participate in the "serious relationship" game. and the way in which that game intersects with sexual discourses is so muddled and messy- it's frustrating for an N who wants to assimilate all the perspectives and synthesize them into something TRUE.

    sexual behavior/practices and the idea of a long-term relationship seem connected in fuzzy ways to me. what this comes down to is CHEATING, which even the language for it is so contractual and legalistic, it has to do with accepting the binding law for a life partnership, a business venture that starts out and proceeds thru a series of phases/transformations intending to build security at a reasonable socially accredited level/way. these are important, i understand, for individual persons to be able to make their way in the world, part out their work, and focus on certain tasks that they can learn and develop skill for in order to do better and w/ more specialization. ie that i won't have to make the money so i can write books, create a pleasing domestic environment, organize leisure and learning and self-improvement, etc. but the ways in which these limit relationships with other human beings can be a huge crutch for development, and this relates to sexual practices as well (which is a serious and valid language for expression, exploration, etc between two people and a way in which they know each other, encoutner each other, and dialogically define themselves thru their experiences with others, positioning themselves within gender discourses, social status discourses, anima animus shit, aesthetic development, T-F balance, clean out the pipes, etc).

    i recognize all these aspects to the equation but my short answer is HELL NO. i'm way too insecure. i understand that my idea of a relationship, particularly a serious long-term life partnership relationship requires many artificial constructs/boundaries for me to have a reasonable level of confidence/trust in the situation. and i would like to point out that THIS is what many of these relationship structures do, what they are there for. it is not any inherent truth to the way in which relationships should or naturally unfold, it is just necessary precautions and like a LANGUAGE for relationships so taht we can appropriately read and respond to the situation. they are not more RIGHT in any way, but certain individuals need more explication, need stricter requirements and tighter socio-sexual boundaries to feel safe/secure/confident/trusting as a partner.

    i am a 5w4 enneagram wise. my tendency is to withdraw to protect my own autonomy and not get over-extended/exposed by the weaknesses that are created in attaching to another (individual or group). i want more control over the articulation of my self, my self-image, my story/narrative of self, my idea of self, my future self projections, etc. anything that threatens these or jeopardizes my ability to do this, or forces me to swallow some bad Fe blood that is disillusioning regarding this, questions and interrogates my ways of integrating my-self as an identity and idea of who i am and who i relate/stack up to others, (which is very 4 wing- wanting to be recognized as a uniquely valuable individual who stands out and is not like the others, is never lumped in with "the rest," etc), just punishes me for idealizing something in a way that is not accurate, or makes me have to question my own Ni connections stored away and update my shit and feel LOST in liminality and unknowing and uncertainty as to who i am, what i'm doing here, and how i relate to others socially, sexually, self-preservationally (success!), etc.

    i would never accept it from someone else. in terms of what a relationship brings to me, i'm realizing my unrealistic expecations to be loved in like another higher better totally categorically different kind of way is silly and absurd. human beings are built to desire, like, love, learn from, fuck other human beings. but i do know that the added security from someone who wants to take care of me (especially in terms of worldly and practical things), attend to my emotional state and wants to nurture it, care for it, etc, is a very significant for me. whereas some types are more inspirational and help release and express big waves of emotional torrent, others ground me from the storms. this ebb and flow is a difficult question to master and only LIFE can answer it, radically contextual and highly situation specific. i don't know what will happen, and it is the nature of highly advanced social beings to have many diverse and conflictin desires that must be managed and maintained. but each person kind of has an obligation to do the best tehy can for themselves, do what they need to do. there are hopefully built-in obligations (dependencies!) to others as well, but they ARE secondary aspects of a life that is ultimately your own to live.

    it is difficult at times for extraverted judgers to turn your own judgment on yourself and your own actions in a way that allows you to stay in touch with your own wants and needs. whereas introverted judging types follow their hearts or their logic in an easier way.

  10. #20
    Allergic to Mornings ergophobe's Avatar
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    No to continuing with the relationship. I recognize that there are a variety of reasons that explain why someone might choose to step outside the relationship to meet their physical needs, some of which may point to problems in the relationship itself. Having said that, I do see it (actual physical infidelity) as a choice a person makes, cognizant of its consequences. They could have also chosen to work on the problems. I would, were the situation reversed.

    I would have difficulty building up trust again and that, as many posters before me have said, is essential for my own desire to continue in the relationship. So, no, I would not be able to continue with the relationship.

    Forgiveness is a separate issue - sure, purely on the basis of humanity, I would forgive. Also, if the person is not in my life any more and it would benefit me to move on, I would work hard on forgiving so I could move on with my own life.

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