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  1. #21
    movin melodies kiddykat's Avatar
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    I think disillusionment can occur on both sides when we take things personally and think, "What did I do? Why's that person mad at me?"

    It's usually not about that one particular person when we check out, but it's usually about us, and even I'm guilty of it sometimes.. I guess that's a part of communication/miscommunication. That is why my motto is: "Live and Let Live."

    I always think of the bumper sticker in Forest Gump: "Shit Happens."

  2. #22
    Obsession. Lethe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LadyJaye View Post
    I've been treated like I'm confusing at times. Let me break it down simply.

    People love love love the fact that NF's are warm, and emotional, and loving, and they can't seem to get enough of it. They treat us like we're dispensers, and they can just push a button and get the sweet sweet candy of understanding anytime they want. As if we have unlimited supplies of it, and that we have limitless energy and understanding. They don't understand that we wear out too, that we need to recharge ourselves, that we can't be out in the world all the time. I feel like I need to retreat into my own head for awhile, and regroup. Especially so if there's a particularly intense relationship going on. For me, it's a series of "get close, move back" maneuvers. I have to be able to disconnect from people. And have the confidence that everyone isn't going to fall apart just because I'm retreating for a little while. It's emotional blackmail if anyone tells you that you're "letting them down", or are accusing you of being aloof just because you need some space.
    As an INTJ, I have a modest supply of sugary-sweet energy and time for other people. I'm also very clear about to whom and where I use it. (Example: I'm sorry, can we do this another day? I need to focus on my project.") I'll give them a heads up if they investigate on my missing presence. I definitely would not involve myself in social interactions when I need to recharge in solitude.

    This ENFP, let's call him K, tends to be unclear and misleading about these peculiar cycles. I might attribute that to K's unawareness from the vague answers I received on my inquiries. K also takes on more than what he's capable of handling. I always ask, "Are you sure?" He quickly then agrees to add an extra load, saying "I can multi-task". It's not exactly sugary-sweets I'm looking for, it's the thorough, quality responses. I have learned not to take his words at face-value and resorted to relying on his non-verbal replies instead. Recently, K jokingly asked why I didn't bother contacting him for a year. The truth was I felt I was wasting valuable time to meet him when he couldn't hold up his end of the conversation. This happened on numerous occasions beyond my memory. My schedule is packed and the last thing I want to do is drag myself into an unproductive activity. I don't have patience for non-constructive or dull discussions on workdays, let alone socializing. Acknowledging K's sensitivity, I skipped the details and explained my schedule couldn't permit it. I may drop in a line or two in the future. I'm just not sure how.
    "I cannot expect even my own art to provide all of the answers -- only to hope it keeps asking the right questions." -- Grace Hartigan

    Enneagram: Tritype - 1w9, 5 (balanced wings), 2w3; Overall Variant: So/Sx
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    Functional Preferences: Ni, Te/Fi, Ti, Se, Fe, Si, Ne


    Quote Originally Posted by OneWithSoul View Post
    Looking into the eyes of a [Ni user] is like peeking through a portal into a parallel universe.

  3. #23
    Senior Member seeker22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LadyJaye View Post
    I've been treated like I'm confusing at times. Let me break it down simply.

    People love love love the fact that NF's are warm, and emotional, and loving, and they can't seem to get enough of it. They treat us like we're dispensers, and they can just push a button and get the sweet sweet candy of understanding anytime they want. As if we have unlimited supplies of it, and that we have limitless energy and understanding. They don't understand that we wear out too, that we need to recharge ourselves, that we can't be out in the world all the time. I feel like I need to retreat into my own head for awhile, and regroup. Especially so if there's a particularly intense relationship going on. For me, it's a series of "get close, move back" maneuvers. I have to be able to disconnect from people. And have the confidence that everyone isn't going to fall apart just because I'm retreating for a little while. It's emotional blackmail if anyone tells you that you're "letting them down", or are accusing you of being aloof just because you need some space.
    BANG ON!!! PRECISELY!! Love the dispenser analogy - I feel that way A LOT! And the "get close, move back" maneuvering... Soooooo meeeeee... And yes on needing to regroup/recharge!!! (and they thought it was just the introverts lol) Yes we need time to recharge our batteries too! And yes on withdrawing to "process!"

  4. #24
    Senior Member seeker22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lethe View Post
    This ENFP, let's call him K, tends to be unclear and misleading about these peculiar cycles. I might attribute that to K's unawareness from the vague answers I received on my inquiries.
    Yup. We can be vague. We are not typically "detail people." We are "big picture." Don't count on us to read the fine print. Also being vague allows us to "keep our options open" on some level. We don't like feeling like "we HAVE to." We need to feel like the choice is ours. Being vague facilitates this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lethe View Post
    K also takes on more than what he's capable of handling.
    Yup. We have the "vision" but we often times bite off more than we can chew. And yes, we can multi-task, but then we usually start just spinning our wheels. No progress. Sometimes we're not always great on the "follow through" element of materializing "the vision." (or "the task.")

  5. #25
    Badoom~ Skyward's Avatar
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    I was always afraid I did something to offend my ENFP friend when he did things like this. I'm thankful this is just an ENFP characteristic, so no apologizing, just waiting for him to spring back out of his mind-cave.
    'Imperfection is beauty, madness is genius and its better to be absolutely ridiculous than absolutely boring.' - Marilyn Monroe

    This is who I am, escapist, paradise-seeker.
    -Nightwish

    Anthropology Major out of Hamline University. St. Paul, Minnesota.

  6. #26
    Obsession. Lethe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seeker22 View Post
    Yup. We can be vague. We are not typically "detail people." We are "big picture." Don't count on us to read the fine print. Also being vague allows us to "keep our options open" on some level. We don't like feeling like "we HAVE to." We need to feel like the choice is ours. Being vague facilitates this.
    I see the point from the ENXP's view. However, I personally see this as flimsy decision making. I think the other party at least deserves to hear a clear answer - negative or positive - when someone else's energy is concerned. Time doesn't wait forever regarding choices and eventually it will decide for them. Hence, missed deadlines.

    Quote Originally Posted by seeker22 View Post
    Yup. We have the "vision" but we often times bite off more than we can chew. And yes, we can multi-task, but then we usually start just spinning our wheels. No progress. Sometimes we're not always great on the "follow through" element of materializing "the vision." (or "the task.")
    Anyway, I'll try to work around their weaknesses because I think they're worth the effort. I was going a vacation with an ENFP, C, and right when she said, "Let's do it later", I knew everything would collapse unless I took matters into my own hands a.s.a.p. I booked early plane tickets, hotel rooms, researched possible sight-sees, printed out/memorized the metropolitan bus maps, saved extra money for emergencies, and read as much as I could about our destination. On the day we had to leave, I came a few hours before the flight to help with the packing that was supposed to be finished last night.

    And holy Jebus, we made it on time! I was also careful to make sure we had enough room for her to jump around from place to place.

    Imagine what would have happened if I didn't think ahead.

    (R & T, two other ENFP companions, are way better at planning and being decisive. This is more of C's story, who technically has zero J traits in her.)
    "I cannot expect even my own art to provide all of the answers -- only to hope it keeps asking the right questions." -- Grace Hartigan

    Enneagram: Tritype - 1w9, 5 (balanced wings), 2w3; Overall Variant: So/Sx
    SLOAN: rCoa|I|
    Functional Preferences: Ni, Te/Fi, Ti, Se, Fe, Si, Ne


    Quote Originally Posted by OneWithSoul View Post
    Looking into the eyes of a [Ni user] is like peeking through a portal into a parallel universe.

  7. #27
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Pah! I say, pah!

    The rights and obligations of freedom from constraint are something I know a little about. You want freedom from constraint? Live the life of an INTJ.

    Dipping in and out of people's lives is letting them down unless they're independent enough to take it. Don't ya think so?

  8. #28
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    New to the site so don't have my avatar uploaded. I have a wide range of engagement - when a subject having to do with ideas, concepts, creativity, passion, human potential are being discussed I'm totally in. I think I'm warm and engaging, but even though I'm an extravert, I've had others say that it takes time to get to know me, as new facets of my complex personality, and surprises gradually unfold.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Tiny Army's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    Pah! I say, pah!

    The rights and obligations of freedom from constraint are something I know a little about. You want freedom from constraint? Live the life of an INTJ.

    Dipping in and out of people's lives is letting them down unless they're independent enough to take it. Don't ya think so?
    Well WE are usually independent enough to take it and (misguidedly) tend to assume other people will be able to as well.

    I get along excellently with INTJs because I'm good at the planning but not on the follow through and they can provide the push I need to finish a project. Once I have planned a thing it slips neatly out of my head because, hell I've already planned it, what's to worry about? This is where INTJs come in. ENFPs have vision and INTJs have discipline I could never even imagine having. I work especially well when I'm in a room with other people.

    Working with an INTJ on a project has been one of the best experiences of my life because we will schedule it so that all the work I have to do takes place while he's in the room (relaxing, smoking a bowl usually) and once I've finished my bit for the day I leave and let him get his introvert work cycle on. I don't think I've ever been more productive.

    Js have a natural drive to complete things which I lack. If I know for certain that I am being depended on for a thing ("I need your end of the project by tonight or else I am in the shitter.") I will give it my all because I hate letting people down but I do need to see solid evidence for how I am letting them down. "I was having a bad day and you wouldn't answer my phone calls and now I feel betrayed" is NOT a good enough reason for me. Get a shrink. My time is my own.

    If it's an emotional dependence, I'm out of there like a shot. If how a person feels on a given day is dependent on my support I am likely to see that as pathetic and I will withdraw from them completely because honestly, who needs that kind of responsibility? I manage my own goddamn feelings and I simply cannot comprehend how anyone could expose themselves like that.

  10. #30
    Senior Member seeker22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiny Army View Post
    If how a person feels on a given day is dependent on my support I am likely to see that as pathetic and I will withdraw from them completely because honestly, who needs that kind of responsibility?
    Amen. Nothing makes me want to flee faster.

    I want to give on my own terms so to speak - not for it to be EXPECTED. By the same token, I INVITE others, but do not EXPECT it.

    I also have a huge need for autonomy and independence. I hate it when someone tries to "tell me what to do" or control me. I will rebel!

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