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  1. #71
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jewelchild View Post
    I'm confused. What was said that made sensors feel like we N's think they're dumb? I don't think you're dumb just because you don't always like discussing the same things N's do.

    My brother's wife is an ISFP. If I talk to her about philosophy or something, she just stands there blinking and says, "Really? Do you really want me to care about this?" If I talked to her about symbolism in a cartoon, she'd probably laugh and call me weird, but get a kick out of my weirdness.

    She's extremely intelligent. It's not that I think she's dumb and I need to dumb down my conversation when I'm around her. I just avoid talking to her about those things because I know it bores her.
    I agree, in real life, it's the usually intuitive made to feel dumb in conversation (if anyone is...). People may look at you like "whaaaa?" and just dismiss everything you say. Not because you are too deep or smart for them, but because it bores them and they think it is pointless discussion.

    Much of my S family invalidates my communication style because I use metaphors and hypothetical situations to make my point - and it goes right over their heads. Meanwhile, they just think I'm not making sense.

    When you meet someone who values and understands your perspective it's just refreshing! I realize the communication block is not all my problem. It's also not surprising to discover that other person is an intuitive....
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  2. #72
    Senior Member Synapse's Avatar
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    How do i talk to S's

    well my track history is curious.

    the the few istj girls i know there seems to be a somewhat strained none communication happening, i rub em the wrong way or none identification so there is little in common.

    but then i get along with my isfp friends like brothers in arms. although they may get me less than i get them its still good for their acceptance is great and get up to lots of good yarns. but how do i talk well speaking in situational talk works, just say it like it is.

  3. #73
    Senior Member Silent Stars's Avatar
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    (This is all based on personal experiences in my past, so don't flip out at me or anything, please...)

    I don't think I talk to sensors about really anything aside from maybe personal interests (though this is rare, as few people like the same things I like, and even less like them to the same extent I do) or if I'm helping them with various things (usually relationship issues), which I do a lot. If I try to actually discuss something with them (particularly if it's something they either don't agree with me on or know little about), no matter how direct, concise, and logical I'm explaining things, they usually at least don't get it at all/act disinterested, or sometimes even take it completely the wrong way, blow up, and antagonize me, projecting their understanding of things onto me without caring one bit about a thing I said, treating it as garbage for the mere fact that they just don't understand it and don't want to take any effort to really have a two-way conversation free of assumptions where both people are there to learn, rather than view it as a chance to prove yourself right at any cost, or turn it into something where you are going against each other, rather than working together to find common ground. Quite often they even talk over me. I find this very frustrating, as I myself never turn it into a me vs. them thing; all I want is to be able to discuss things on a level playing field without letting it get heated, but they just don't seem to have the patience for it. (and yes, this even happens with STs, not just the SFs....they both have blown up at me over various things)

    There have been a few exceptions to this, of course, but they have been very few and far between in my life. I think I've had less problems with SPs (particularly ISxPs), as they rarely ever go beyond the stage of simply acting indifferent to what I say (They have more of a tendency to just plain act as if I don't exist...which I guess isn't really any better, except that it makes less conflict for me to have to deal with.), unlike the SJs, who have been a lot more pushy toward me (though, of course, there have been a few pretty extreme counterexamples to both ends of this as well, but only a few).

    I find that I can at least get along with most sensors, sometimes even very well, as long as things don't get too personal on my end (as they seem unable to really handle hearing what I have to say about my life and my views on things, making such silly accusations like me being clingy, needy, whiny, weak, or some such nonsense, for the mere fact that I haven't exactly had an easy, comfortable life and am very sensitive [this happens more with Ts in general, but a lot more frequently with STs]; I guess maybe I come off as being too intense, but in all honestly, there's little about myself that I could ever say that isn't intense in some way, so it's either that, or I say nothing and clam up [which I get chastised for as well], so I'm usually screwed no matter what I do.), or deviate from being absolutely directly relevant.

    Now, I am not one to actively separate myself from certain groups of people (including ones not based on personality type), and I'll talk to anyone who is actually interested in talking, but I find that the majority of the time, I can really only connect with other intuitives. Sensors tend to not want anything more to do with me than they absolutely have to.

    Also, this is a very good example of the kind of overreaction/projection that happens when they misunderstand me:
    Quote Originally Posted by FC3S View Post
    Well, if you seem so bent on being on my shit list I will comply. /block
    He wasn't saying that he wants to be on your shit list, but rather, he was speaking in a hypothetical sense, using your reaction to him as an example of what he's talking about, and applying it in a general way to how these misunderstandings keep relationships from progressing. It was not meant to be taken personally at all. (If you were being facetious, then please ignore this as having any personal relevance.)
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  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Stars View Post
    (This is all based on personal experiences in my past, so don't flip out at me or anything, please...)

    I don't think I talk to sensors about really anything aside from maybe personal interests (though this is rare, as few people like the same things I like, and even less like them to the same extent I do) or if I'm helping them with various things (usually relationship issues), which I do a lot. If I try to actually discuss something with them (particularly if it's something they either don't agree with me on or know little about), no matter how direct, concise, and logical I'm explaining things, they usually at least don't get it at all/act disinterested, or sometimes even take it completely the wrong way, blow up, and antagonize me, projecting their understanding of things onto me without caring one bit about a thing I said, treating it as garbage for the mere fact that they just don't understand it and don't want to take any effort to really have a two-way conversation free of assumptions where both people are there to learn, rather than view it as a chance to prove yourself right at any cost, or turn it into something where you are going against each other, rather than working together to find common ground. Quite often they even talk over me. I find this very frustrating, as I myself never turn it into a me vs. them thing; all I want is to be able to discuss things on a level playing field without letting it get heated, but they just don't seem to have the patience for it. (and yes, this even happens with STs, not just the SFs....they both have blown up at me over various things)

    There have been a few exceptions to this, of course, but they have been very few and far between in my life. I think I've had less problems with SPs (particularly ISxPs), as they rarely ever go beyond the stage of simply acting indifferent to what I say (They have more of a tendency to just plain act as if I don't exist...which I guess isn't really any better, except that it makes less conflict for me to have to deal with.), unlike the SJs, who have been a lot more pushy toward me (though, of course, there have been a few pretty extreme counterexamples to both ends of this as well, but only a few).

    I find that I can at least get along with most sensors, sometimes even very well, as long as things don't get too personal on my end (as they seem unable to really handle hearing what I have to say about my life and my views on things, making such silly accusations like me being clingy, needy, whiny, weak, or some such nonsense, for the mere fact that I haven't exactly had an easy, comfortable life and am very sensitive [this happens more with Ts in general, but a lot more frequently with STs]; I guess maybe I come off as being too intense, but in all honestly, there's little about myself that I could ever say that isn't intense in some way, so it's either that, or I say nothing and clam up [which I get chastised for as well], so I'm usually screwed no matter what I do.), or deviate from being absolutely directly relevant.

    Now, I am not one to actively separate myself from certain groups of people (including ones not based on personality type), and I'll talk to anyone who is actually interested in talking, but I find that the majority of the time, I can really only connect with other intuitives. Sensors tend to not want anything more to do with me than they absolutely have to.

    Also, this is a very good example of the kind of overreaction/projection that happens when they misunderstand me:

    He wasn't saying that he wants to be on your shit list, but rather, he was speaking in a hypothetical sense, using your reaction to him as an example of what he's talking about, and applying it in a general way to how these misunderstandings keep relationships from progressing. It was not meant to be taken personally at all.
    I wonder why...

  5. #75
    Senior Member The Grand Chameleon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabastious View Post
    This thread has kind of turned into a flame thread. I'm not trying to belittle sensors, that was read into from my OP. What I want is to be able to become more versed in people and their view on life. I'm only 25 so I don't have a whole lot of people experience yet.
    It's good you cleared this up. Now any XXXX that tries to defend, "the type" will just appear ignorant. This is a self-improvement issue. Let all "N vs. S" dialogue perish.

    All you can really do is pry so much, and you'll hit a wall no matter who you talk to. If that wall stops at Wall-E's funny laugh, then so be it. Now you know to find what you perceive as intellectual stimulation elsewhere. This is why it's important for you to:
    1) Have many and wide-ranging a contact.
    2) Go about these contacts with tact until you find where the limitations of that interaction lies.
    3) Carry forth said limit at your discretion.

    Variety is a wonderful tool that's naturally at your disposal. Use it.
    "In the game of chess, you can never let your opponent see your pieces."

  6. #76
    Senior Member Silent Stars's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unique View Post
    I wonder why...
    If you have any ideas, please fill me in.
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  7. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I agree, in real life, it's the usually intuitive made to feel dumb in conversation (if anyone is...). People may look at you like "whaaaa?" and just dismiss everything you say. Not because you are too deep or smart for them, but because it bores them and they think it is pointless discussion.

    Much of my S family invalidates my communication style because I use metaphors and hypothetical situations to make my point - and it goes right over their heads. Meanwhile, they just think I'm not making sense.

    When you meet someone who values and understands your perspective it's just refreshing! I realize the communication block is not all my problem. It's also not surprising to discover that other person is an intuitive....
    +1 on the bolded.
    I can't count all the times I've used the first bolded line, or times that it has been used on me. I don't find it all that exclusive to the S/N differences, I have managed to agitate Ps with the J talk. But it is about the subject and how it is discussed, and how willing the other is to listen to the different communication type. /blabber

  8. #78
    Senior Member WickedQueen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabastious View Post
    her reply was: "WALL-E makes funny noises."
    LOL... I won't say that, but I would say something like: "Uh-huh? Yeah, okay. So?" She's polite enough to tell you that she's not interested to that topic.

    Ask her like this: "What do you like about WALL-E?"
    She probably say: "Nothing. It's just movie for kid."
    Ask her again: "So what kind of movie do you like and why?"
    She: "I like this movie because blah3x..."
    You:
    "Yeah I agree... You see, WALL-E is similar with that in some way blah3x..."
    or
    "I don't like that movie because I think its... In WALL-E, I think its more like blah3x..."

    From that, there's a possibility that the conversation will continue.


    So, how does a strong NF like myself comminucate with S's? So far it's been an epic fail at every turn.
    Like I said, when she seems not interested on some topic that you like, ask her the reason why she's not interested, then ask her what makes her interested and why. If you don't like the topic she comes up with, tell her your reason. That way, you drag her to a more fair conversation.

    Good luck!

  9. #79
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
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    Sometimes it's just about finding common ground. The great thing about SJ's is they point out the things that I as an NF have completely missed, because it's right there in front of me.
    It's harlious sometimes, when I'm trying to divine some greater meaning out of some thing and they point out the obvious (it makes me feel kinda silly too).
    Sometimes I just have to remember that not everything has hidden meaning, I find that SJ's can very grounding if you are open to it.
    SP's on the other hand are just as silly as NF's in their own way (which is a good thing!). I'm pretty sure my brother is an ISFP. He was great at making people feel at ease, and was real pleasant to be around. He always made me laugh.
    Communication isn't hard, although I have to admit it is often hardest with ESXJ's for me, as they like to dominate and steer the conversation more than any other type. If they relax a little, and let me contribute, it can be quite enlightening for both...I'll be honest though, they like to set the conditions...just don't ask me to attend an SJ dominated BBQ though. Way too formulaic. I kept waiting for the SP's, to get drunk, strip naked and go skinny dipping in the pool, or for my fellow NF's and NT's to break into a heated philiosphical discussion. SJ's are just too sensible at times, but that's good thing too.
    Currently submerged under an avalanche of books and paper work. I may come back up for air from time to time.
    Real life awaits and she is a demanding mistress.

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  10. #80
    Senior Member wrldisquiethere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post
    I can talk about abstract stuff if it actually has something to do with reality. Like for example, last night in the Vent chat we were talking about fear and the difference between natural, instinctive skills and learned, developed skills. For several minutes we talked about this without applying it to any specific real-life situations. But - it still had to do with real life, even though we were vague about it. The conversations I have no interest in are the ones about things that could never happen or have no relation to my life in any way. The more fantastical the subject, the less interest I have in it. The "what if" type questions that go nowhere and are just complete meaningless speculation.

    My NF co-worker and I talk a lot about emotions and personalities and plenty of things that could be considered abstract, but we always talk about those things in the context of real human relationships and scenarios, not in a vacuum. I've seen people on this site have entire threads where everything is function shorthand like Fi with Ti, Se with Ni, etc and they never once actually talk about how any of that actually applies to anybody in reality, it's just floating around in the atmosphere somewhere as abstract concepts, and that's the stuff that just does nothing for me.
    Quoted for truth. I can talk for hours about these kind of abstract things if it actually has a practical application to my every day relationships or someone else's.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unique View Post
    True on the "tune out" part but BS that is because it causes stress or being uncomfortable

    I know an ESFP, very smart girl, could defiantly talk abstract and hold her end of the conversation extremely well HOWEVER she preferences S so for that reason would prefer not to talk about these things

    She is actually very VERY S and I've asked her why she doesn't show her "deeper" side and she more or less thinks sensing is just a better way of working with the world, obviously

    Being able to naturally sense easily doesn't make you uneasy around psychological topics or whatever

    MBTI is a system of what you use "most of the time" now now.... don't be jealous that we use the more practical sensing option a majority of the time

    When we live in fairy land, let me know, I'll make the switch to intuition
    Exactly. And I would have to say that just because an S doesn't have anything to contribute to a conversation about abstract, non-practical ideas doesn't mean that we are necessarily uncomfortable with it...it could just mean we have nothing to contribute. I can listen to my ENFJ friend talk about the hidden meanings she finds in everything, and I cannot come up with anything to say to add to the conversation except sensory observations. I do try to affirm her ideas even though I can't relate to them by positive comments here and there to let her know she can continue on talking, but if she were to give me the floor I would hardly ever have anything to say. The things I would have to say would more often than not make it sound like I am trying to change the subject, even if I'm not.

    Maybe this deserves its own topic, but I'm not exactly sure how N's expect or would like us S's to respond when they start talking about all these hidden meanings and abstract ideas. Just listen quietly? I'm not trying to be a smart ass, I really want to know.
    Si, Fe equal Fi & Ti

    "I had a bag of Fritos, they were Texas grilled Fritos. These Fritos had grill marks on them. They remind me of summer, when we used to fire up the barbeque and throw down some Fritos. I can still see my dad with the apron on. Better flip that Frito, dad, you know how I like it." -Mitch Hedberg

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