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  1. #111
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unique View Post
    The last two comments were to simply test if you had a sense of humor

    You acknowledge what I said, acknowledge you don't know why they tune out, then go and use that word "uncomfortable" again

    Also again you accuse me of talking about myself, this was never about me.

    I'm not replying to you, feel free to have the last say though
    You've been replying to me in a crude manner for some reason, and never actually contemplating what I've said. I'm speaking from my experiences. I'm allowed to do that. Don't turn this into a "one-up" game.

  2. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    You've been replying to me in a crude manner for some reason, and never actually contemplating what I've said. I'm speaking from my experiences. I'm allowed to do that. Don't turn this into a "one-up" game.
    Hardly I don't take things seriously enough to be crude.

    Speaking from experiences? Isn't than an S thing?

    How about you use that lovely intuition of yours and and imagine a sensing type you get along well with, what are they like? How do they communicate with you?

    Well the person you just imagined is out there along with countless others like them

    NF/S communication is easy, in fact I find it to be the easiest

    Edit. Oh with the exception of you

  3. #113
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unique View Post
    Hardly I don't take things seriously enough to be crude.

    Speaking from experiences? Isn't than an S thing?

    How about you use that lovely intuition of yours and and imagine a sensing type you get along well with, what are they like? How do they communicate with you?

    Well the person you just imagined is out there along with countless others like them

    NF/S communication is easy, in fact I find it to be the easiest
    What I don't understand is why you're trying to tell me what I should do, and in a condescending manner. I don't know where you got off on that angle. Whatever beef you have with intuitives on this forum, doesn't have anything to do with me.

  4. #114
    Senior Member seeker22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unique View Post
    NF/S communication is easy, in fact I find it to be the easiest.
    Hmmm... A bold statement... I would guess that you might be in the minority with that claim... as far as it being the *easiest* that is.

    I agree with Lauren Ashley... Some very real differences between the two DO exist. That's all that's being pointed out and explored for the purpose of increasing understanding.

  5. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by seeker22 View Post
    Hmmm... A bold statement... I would guess that you might be in the minority with that claim... as far as it being the *easiest* that is.

    I agree with Lauren Ashley... Some very real differences between the two DO exist. That's all that's being pointed out and explored for the purpose of increasing understanding.
    Maybe on this forum there's the misconception that its difficult

    Out there in the real world besides my fellow SPs the NFs are the easiest and most enjoyable (for me) to talk with

  6. #116
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    "Idealists are naturally inductive in their thought and speech, which is to say that they move quickly from the part to the whole, from a few particulars to sweeping generalizations, from the smallest sign of something to its entirety. With their focus on the unseen potentials, on the not visible and the not yet, Idealists show an extraordinary sensitivity to hints of things, mere suggestions, inklings, intimations, symbols. To be sure, such inductive inferences, requiring what is called the "intuitive leap", can be astonishing to others, especially in cases of mind reading and extra-sensory perception. At the very least, Idealists are the best suited of all the types to read between the lines, or to have a sixth sense about people, and they do indeeed follow theirr hunches, heed their feelings, and insist they "just know" what people are really up to, or what they really mean. Even with complicated issues NF's need hear only the first words of an explanation to feel they understand the subject fully, jumping from telling details to larger meanings."

    That right there is the biggest communication issue I have with NFs. When their intuitions are right, it can be very valuable, but they can also be WAY OFF and it seems like there's no convincing them that they may not "just know" about something without really getting into the specifics of it. I have seen this play out over and over with my mother, my ex-wife, NF co-workers and people on this forum and other forums. If we're on the same page, it's great, but if not, it's like hitting my head against a wall.

    By the way, I am not trying to say I'm superior in communication, so no one can accuse me of trying to say that Ns have to be the ones who always change to accommodate Ss. I am just trying to present my side of where difficulties arise. I love and admire y'all, and I want to be able to communicate better.
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  7. #117
    Senior Member seeker22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post
    I am just trying to present my side of where difficulties arise. I love and admire y'all, and I want to be able to communicate better.
    Ditto that! Me too!

  8. #118
    AKA Nunki Polaris's Avatar
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    I'm not sure about other NFs, but I usually talk to SPs in the same manner I talk to other intuitors. It's not the best recipe for understanding, but it does sometimes lead to amusement (more so with SFPs; it's hard for me to mesh with STPs). SJs are the ones I have to be a little more careful with. I find that a lot of them consider intuitive thinking ridiculous, so I tone that down while around them in order to get along. In most cases it isn't necessary to voice my wacky thoughts, so that isn't very hard to do. When I do want to voice those thoughts, I try to make them sound as reasonable as I can, and that's usually enough.
    [ Ni > Ti > Fe > Fi > Ne > Te > Si > Se ][ 4w5 sp/sx ][ RLOAI ][ IEI-Ni ]

  9. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    What I don't understand is why you're trying to tell me what I should do, and in a condescending manner. I don't know where you got off on that angle. Whatever beef you have with intuitives on this forum, doesn't have anything to do with me.
    *dies from too many assumptions*

  10. #120
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    This, this, this, this is your problem I feel.

    Nothing is wrong with being a quiet person who doesn't express themselves very often. But what I continually find to be the problem people have when wanting to engage people is that you (not you specifically but you have an excellent example of what I'm talking about) when YOU are ready to engage you have nothing foundational set to engage at that level. You've probably tuned out all that other stuff you consider minor and insignificant that OTHER people view as the building blocks to something more. Yet another example with that same ESFJ is one about her year old son. I have (not had to, but I choose to) sit through stories about the baby, disgusting cute things baby did, baby peeing on her and it was so cute, baby going through trash and getting a sanitary napkin it was so cute, blah blah blah, only later to get the conversation of What Kind of Mother Will I Be, How Do I Want To Raise My Child, What Kind of World is My Child Growing Up In, etc. etc.

    Think about it exactly as you said it. No one has given YOU the platform to have those types of conversations have they? You're waiting for your opportunity right? Maybe someone out there will patiently listen and smile and occasionally comment while you wax on about capitalism and that would be right up your alley wouldn't it? And then they seize upon that moment in time when you say something about baking your sponge cake to just the right consistency and it tasting like a little slice of shangri-la in your mouth and they're like FINALLY!!

    Yes, I understand the need to sometimes not go through all that "minor" stuff and talk about The Media as the Four Branch of Government, but even look at this forum as example. Are not the most popular threads here the ones meant solely for social purposes? Go do a search of the most viewed and commented in threads and I guarantee you they are not about epistemology of religious beliefs. It's probably the Picture Time thread and we've had to cut the serious conversations out of that thread in the past to keep it in all of it's fluffy glory.

    I don't really know how to tell you how to get people not to cut you off dead when you start. I know that one of my methods is always celebrity gossip with women. The conversation will start one way, go off on a tangent more to my liking then probably come back to the original vein of conversation. Or like I was recently talking with a few people about the Sonia Sotomayor comments and we went into a discussion about what she meant when she said a wise Latina and what more diversity on the Supreme Court would mean. It was a racially mixed group of people and I found the conversation satisfying, but maybe someone else didn't.

    Like I said, I don't know. I find these opportunities exist in virtually any conversation I have. And maybe it's just the type of personality that I have I am not afraid of steering a conversation down a certain path. And I can tell how receptive people are by how involved they get in the conversation. I don't expect to have conversations with 100% participation so maybe you would in fact be one of the people who is bored to death by my soporific sensorific convos.

    When I want to jump straight into wham bam thank you mam abstract conversation I go to my film and philosophical discussion group where that's all we do is discuss that. But even there the conversation will occasionally lapse into some talk about kids and dinner. I don't know how to get around it.
    You are right, in that I don't pay attention to details much. I don't mind so much listening to them if it's an equal convo. Sure I might get the odd eye roll when I leap into abstractville. My SP friends are much more tolerant of this.
    I have to admit many of my SJ aquauntances and I have little in common, which really does make conversation difficult -if it's shared interest then it is so much easier....unfortuantly it's not uncommon though for me to find we have nothing in common, other than sharing common friends, living in same area, that sort of thing. Don't get me wrong, it's not that I don't try. It can distress me when a stilted convo happens. I find that some SJ's have a good less patiance than I - that also depends, however, on maturity and how balanced they are. I find introvert SJ's more torlerant about finding common ground.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post
    "Idealists are naturally inductive in their thought and speech, which is to say that they move quickly from the part to the whole, from a few particulars to sweeping generalizations, from the smallest sign of something to its entirety. With their focus on the unseen potentials, on the not visible and the not yet, Idealists show an extraordinary sensitivity to hints of things, mere suggestions, inklings, intimations, symbols. To be sure, such inductive inferences, requiring what is called the "intuitive leap", can be astonishing to others, especially in cases of mind reading and extra-sensory perception. At the very least, Idealists are the best suited of all the types to read between the lines, or to have a sixth sense about people, and they do indeeed follow theirr hunches, heed their feelings, and insist they "just know" what people are really up to, or what they really mean. Even with complicated issues NF's need hear only the first words of an explanation to feel they understand the subject fully, jumping from telling details to larger meanings."

    That right there is the biggest communication issue I have with NFs. When their intuitions are right, it can be very valuable, but they can also be WAY OFF and it seems like there's no convincing them that they may not "just know" about something without really getting into the specifics of it. I have seen this play out over and over with my mother, my ex-wife, NF co-workers and people on this forum and other forums. If we're on the same page, it's great, but if not, it's like hitting my head against a wall.

    By the way, I am not trying to say I'm superior in communication, so no one can accuse me of trying to say that Ns have to be the ones who always change to accommodate Ss. I am just trying to present my side of where difficulties arise. I love and admire y'all, and I want to be able to communicate better.
    Jeff, how long do you wait for their leaps of intuition to pan out? (LOL!) Seriously, I've had people tell me what you quoted (parapharased, of course).
    Of course, a year or two down the track, they come back and tell me I was right
    Seriously, though, I'm guilty as charged with this. I'll admitt it. And this is no way an attempt to invalidate what you said, because it does ring true, but some times you guys take things way too much at face value. Sometimes there's a whole other story going on underneath. So when you come to stand off like that, we are just as frustrated as you are because there is something else going, although, sometimes (rarely) it's not actually what we thought it was, but it's definitely something BUT we can't show you, because it's nebolous thing, like a tickle at the back of the mind. I'm sure at those times if we could communicate that feeling better you would bring claratity, but I know at those times, I do extrapolate....if I get a resonable explanation that gels with that feeling I will almost certainly accept it, but if you straight out deny that feeling I have, rather that give me time to piece it together, then I will dig my heels and defend it to the death. Sometimes it best to humour us, so long, as no action is taken on that feeling.
    Currently submerged under an avalanche of books and paper work. I may come back up for air from time to time.
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