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  1. #101
    Senior Member Snow Turtle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Ah, I think I understand what you're saying here.

    But to be honest, while I like people a little bit, I'm not interested in emotionally investing myself in their lives to this extent. I'd rather interact with people online who'll dump this stuff on me right away than work for it. If I have to work for it, I'd honestly rather just ignore them and focus only on practical issues while in their presence. It may seem lazy, but that's kind of how I feel.

    I don't really expect anything from Sensors or Extraverts. I've accepted that we have different roles in life. They live in their world, and I live in mine. We intersect on the plane of practical, day-to-day tasks (could potentially help one another there), and then go our separate ways. Them to their goofy social lives, me to my computer to talk on this forum. This is the way it should be, IMO. Both types of people doing what we most want to do is ideal.

    I don't want Sensors to be less shallow, honestly. Otherwise, what would I define my own depth in relation to? The world needs shallow people, and it needs deeper people. They all fit into the larger picture in their own place.
    Please tell me this is satire.
    I honestly can't tell.

  2. #102
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kai View Post
    Please tell me this is satire.
    I honestly can't tell.
    It's not completely serious, but it's not completely kidding, either. Does that help or make it worse?

    The point is, in the scenario Proteanmix revealed, the only way to get Sensors to open up is by emotionally investing in them. There's no good reason for me to work at that in real life, alongside the necessary work I need to focus on, when I can just go online and get the same kind of interaction I'm seeking without a frustrating investment. So I might as well go ahead and limit my interaction with them in real life to the practical sphere, and be grateful they don't demand an investment of real energy.

    And it is true that without shallow people, the ones with depth wouldn't know they were deep (because they'd have no point of reference). So they should think about that before condemning them rather than appreciating them. It's not quite true that such shallow people would be more likely to be S, though.

  3. #103
    Senior Member Snow Turtle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    It's not completely serious, but it's not completely kidding, either. Does that help or make it worse?
    Good stuff. But still I'll have to burn you depending on which aspect.

    The point is, in the scenario Proteanmix revealed, the only way to get Sensors to open up is by emotionally investing in them. There's no good reason for me to work at that in real life, alongside the necessary work I need to focus on, when I can just go online and get the same kind of interaction I'm seeking without a frustrating investment. So I might as well go ahead and limit my interaction with them in real life to the practical sphere, and be grateful they don't demand an investment of real energy.
    Becoming an underground hikikomori?

    Oh well, welcome to the dark side of the internet!

    And it is true that without shallow people, the ones with depth wouldn't know they were deep (because they'd have no point of reference). So they should think about that before condemning them rather than appreciating them. It's not quite true that such people would be more likely to be S, though.
    Reminds me of the whole discussion whether pain is needed to experience happiness, and my refusal to believe that it's not possible to have happiness without a contrast. Then there's the problem of defining exactly what a shallow person is, and practical issues aside that it's impossible not to make comparisons, whether it's even necessary for one to know that they are deep. What are the benefits of adopting this attitude? How does it change reality? Is it used so we can interact more efficiently? Or is it used so that we can boost our own ego at the expense of others?

  4. #104
    Senior Member seeker22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Person A: Man, am I ever glad it's Friday!
    Person B: Yeah, only two more days before it starts all over again.
    A: What are you doing this weekend?
    B: Well my youngest daughter and her husband are coming into town so we'll probably go out somewhere.
    A: How are you liking your empty nest?
    B: It's quiet and I don't mind the quiet, but sometimes I wish my kids would visit more often. It's just me and the dog.

    There are many types of deep conversations to be had out there. Sometimes it's just recognizing when someone is beginning it with you. If you're like :rolli: not again. She's about to start talking about her kids and grandkids. I don't want to hear this you're missing the underlying fear of aging and being alone, which to me is the deeper abstract conversation.
    Ohhhhhhhh... I like this. A lot. Tuning into the underlying messages behind the concrete seemingly superfical-esque small talk words. That's a shift for me I am going to be implementing... Thank you! =)

  5. #105
    Senior Member Negative_'s Avatar
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    sign language.
    .

    MASTER OF APATHY AND PURPLE SIGNATURES

  6. #106
    morose bourgeoisie
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    I sometimes get the feeling that my ISFJ girlfriend is tuning me out, so I asked her to just tell me that I'm going off on some tangent. I'm very intuitive and find it pretty easy to get lost in my own head at times. She is very concrete.

    I am a terrible procrastinator. She keeps lists and gets things done.
    I am slow to engage with others. She is very warm and inviting.
    There are things in my head that I will probably never share with her because she probably won't get it, but then again, a lot of those same things I am hesitant to share with anyone. I know plenty of N's who aren't that bright. Sorry, but it's true. It's not a key to the shining castle on the hill. It's just another way of organizing input from the world.
    I sometimes wonder if some of my intuitive navel gazing isn't just a narcissistic self indulgence anyway...
    My mother is a sensor too. I know she doesn' get a whole lot of what I say, but so what? I know she loves me and wants me to be happy. My FG is so compassionate and kind. Hanging out with her and her friends has been a wonderful experience in getting OUT of my head.
    People are just people. Be friendly and kind first. We can all just get along.

  7. #107
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seeker22 View Post
    Ohhhhhhhh... I like this. A lot. Tuning into the underlying messages behind the concrete seemingly superfical-esque small talk words. That's a shift for me I am going to be implementing... Thank you! =)
    God help me and my I told you so's but I find it ironic that I had to break this down into a concrete and literal fashion for it to be understood.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  8. #108
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    An ESFJ came up to me and did the weirdest thing this week.

    She said to me, "Do you know what I do when I get up in the morning?" and I said, "No but you're going to tell me." laugh laugh laugh. Then she continued, "Every morning I get and ask myself how can I make my self better today." And I was like "Seriously?" More conversation. Then she says, "But I've been wondering over the last few months, why am I doing this? What is my rush? Why do I feel like I have to accomplish so much by the time I'm 30? Who am I racing against? I overheard a woman on the subway talking about getting her college degree at 40. Why I am running so hard and fast?"

    She initiated what I would consider an "abstract" conversation and she's only 24! Her Ne isn't due to cross the horizon for at least another 20-25 years! And the conversation was more than 20 minutes! But sadly after that we starting talking about Beyonce.

    From what I'm interpreting people saying in this thread is they expect this type of conversation non-stop all the time. And the type of abstract conversations I think NFs want is to have someone pour out their heart and soul. I'd like to ask those who feel like they're not getting enough of this type of conversation from people what are you doing to cultivate an atmosphere where people feel comfortable talking to you like this? Certainly, you understand that some people (I'd say most people) wouldn't casually bust out with this? So many of these complaints are based on the fact that you may be closed off yourself and when you do decide to foray into conversations like this with others you have no foundation or platform set for them to happen. And then you get upset when they don't happen when you've done nothing to make them happen.

    I have conversations like this with various Essess nearly every other day. Honestly, I wouldn't even talk to half of the people who've commented on this thread about anything abstract and deep because I seriously detect a superior attitude and perhaps others detect this as well. I have found little reason to significantly change my casual conversational topics because someone won't be interested in it. I find an angle to make the conversation as interesting and engaging for most people involved. Use your precious N to figure out how.

    Hmm...I don't find that girl's comments "abstract" at all....seems very straightforward & practical to me....

    Anyway, I think the N/S divide can sometimes have less to do with topics than manner of expression. I personally do not want to discuss philosophy or religion with just any person. I can deal with lighter topics just fine. I often prefer playful discussion to deep discussion.
    The issue arises in how I discuss any topic.

    For instance, my ESFP sister will not tolerate my use of hypothetical situations to illustrate a point on a practical matter. The discussion itself is not on abstract or "deep" matters, but my way of speaking is still intuitive. She rejects my contribution by saying it's irrelevant because it's not "real". She refuses to even try and make the connection between my theoretical offering and the issue at hand. This is frustrating for me, because it invalidates my view as a person. The intuitive is the one made to feel stupid and lesser, not the sensor.

    Sensors do this a lot, even if they aren't quite as rude about it as my sister. Their eyes glaze over and they "uh huh" you til you get the hint & shut up. Then later some sensor says something that essentially takes your view and expresses it less abstractedly, and then everyone credits them with the thought :steam:
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  9. #109
    Senior Member seeker22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    God help me and my I told you so's but I find it ironic that I had to break this down into a concrete and literal fashion for it to be understood.
    You know... With all due respect... For someone accusing others in the forum of having superior attitudes... (I thought we were simply having an exploratory discussion) I must say your posts come off as a bit condescending. I tried to subtly suggest this to you, but you couldn't grasp it. Anyway - thanks for the insight. Hopefully the chip on your shoulder will ease up a little at some point...

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    I don't know why sensors tune out, I was just posing a theory. But I do indeed get the sense that the ESxPs I know feel uncomfortable with this kind of conversation. This may not apply to you, of course.


    OMG...you're so right! I'm completely jealous of your lopsided focus on the concrete world. I have no idea how to do that.


    Fairy land...hmmm. I wonder why sensors are allowed to make derogatory comments about intuition, but when the situation is reversed, people call it condescending.
    The last two comments were to simply test if you had a sense of humor

    The reason people don't make jokes about sensing is because we live in a real concrete world

    "hahaha how realistic was that guy who knew how to do that thing on his ipod"

    compared to

    "hahaha how off the planet was that guy, talking about stuff that will never even happen"

    Obviously the second guy would get the laugh response and gee I wonder why?

    You acknowledge what I said, acknowledge you don't know why they tune out, then go and use that word "uncomfortable" again

    Also again you accuse me of talking about myself, this was never about me.

    I have nothing against intuition I just find it amusing that you are so f**king amazed that it isn't looked upon as "fairy landish" hell most Ns are a bit more modest and know that its pretty impractical most of the time but comes in handy in certain fields/expertise in the world

    I'm not likely replying to you as you seem closed minded and quite frankly repetitive and boring (keep making false assumptions), feel free to have the last say though

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