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  1. #31
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    Uhhm ... did I somehow miss the relevance of the above post?
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  2. #32
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jewelchild View Post
    Uhhm ... did I somehow miss the relevance of the above post?
    Maybe. I know I did.

    It would be cool if people could actually describe their ideas instead of just posting large chunks of material out of religious texts.

    Otherwise I'm gonna have to start pulling out my Kierkegaard....
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #33
    Senior Member ENFJ_Catholic's Avatar
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    I missed the relevance of the quote post, except to say the person bolded areas he/she thought were important. But really...there's something to be said about weaving one's quotations into a disernable discussion/debate. It makes for better reading!

    There's English classes for that, ya know...
    "In the end it is not a matter of reason; it is a matter of love." - St. Thomas More

  4. #34
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    English classes.

    *faints in ecstasy at the mere mention of English classes*
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  5. #35
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    I like me my English classes...

    (Totally unproper...but fun!)
    "In the end it is not a matter of reason; it is a matter of love." - St. Thomas More

  6. #36
    #005645 phthalocyanine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post

    It would be cool if people could actually describe their ideas instead of just posting large chunks of material out of religious texts.
    fair enough...

    well, i saw that most respondents chose to focus on aspects of OP's specific situation, with little in response to the more faith-related things..

    Quote Originally Posted by sabastious View Post

    Now heres the interesting part. If I were to ask some of my loved ones if I deserved to die, or if I am the worthless human the bible tells me I am (based on actions) they would deny it. Its just too harsh to think that way, even though the bible CLEARLY states that someone who knew the truth about god and then rejected it is worse than someone who doesnt know. Im in the same category as the devil then.

    I know, in my heart, that they believe that because they have to believe it if they follow the bible verbatim (which they do).

    A good example would be my cousin, who I care deeply about. We are both musicians and like to play music together. Once I told him that I dont believe in the god of the bible anymore he said we wont have dealings anymore.
    it was a decidedly impersonal response to these things, mostly.

    - i suppose i was too cautious to blatantly 'call out' any discrepancies in sabastious' familial/social circle's attitudes, so instead decided simply to let the posted passages speak for themselves. i think they do.

    ...and i think it is a very tired string of lamentation and rhetoric to start if i were to begin talking about modern 'christian's' "pick and choose" attitude when it comes to scripture and social issues..condemnation versus love, et cetera..focus in this thread should stay on OP, after all.

    sorry if i have offended any english teachers (or their pets).

    carry on!

  7. #37
    Senior Member Lightyear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post

    Christianity in particular is, I'm sorry to say, particularly coercive. There's one God, one path, one destination, one law in life, no one is unique or different, anyone who disagrees is destroyed, and there's no questioning or justification allowed. I, for one, don't like the message that sends people about their place in the world. Can you not see how that message is inherently intended to destroy people's individuality and self-expression?
    I would have to agree with Jeffster that your view of religion is bigoted and narrow. I have been brought up as an atheist until at the age of 19 I very unexpectedly turned to the Christian faith (long story) and 8 years later I am still the only one in my family who believes in God.

    So I have seen atheism and Christianity from the inside and I can just say that your view of Christianity is very warped, you make it sound like it is some kind of prison camp (which it is not, it is about realising that you are mortal but that something bigger is out there, and that this being loves you and cares about you and has put you on this earth for a reason)

    I am not going to excuse the bad behaviour of some religious people and I think it's awful that the love in Sabastious' community seems to be so conditional, I feel like shaking these people out of their little boxes.

    However your posts make you sound like a non-religious fundamentalist who is so convinced of his or her own opinions that there is no point in trying to engage you in a conversation (one of my friends has recently turned into a radical atheist and it's just useless trying to make him understand my point of view since he is so stuck in his thinking that every conversation will just lead to him preaching about how faith is illogical and God is not a rational concept etc, etc)


    Quote Originally Posted by phthalocyanine View Post
    fair enough...

    well, i saw that most respondents chose to focus on aspects of OP's specific situation, with little in response to the more faith-related things..
    I agree with Jennifer in this respect. Give the OP a break and let him heal instead of trying to shove some more religion down his throat.

  8. #38
    #005645 phthalocyanine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightyear View Post
    Give the OP a break and let him heal instead of trying to shove some more religion down his throat.

    I wasn't trying to direct anything preachy at him..nor was i trying to force anything on anyone.. i thought that perhaps a reminder of the softer side of this troublesome piece of writing might do some good..

    for you, perhaps it didn't do any good.. but this isn't your thread.
    if the OP gives me such a complaint i will gladly apologize and back off.


    edit: i'm not a christian, just to clear that up. other folks read the bible, too.

  9. #39
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    Hey Phthalocyanine, thanks for clarifying. I wasn't offended ... just unsure of where you were going with all the verses.

    The whole Bible thing does get frustrating, since I can think of just as many verses requiring people to separate themselves from or "shun" non believers. I dunno. Trying to avoid a big debate, so I won't post them.

    What sucks is that even if the Bible does contain those verses about love, it doesn't help the OP get support from his family or figure out how to deal with life from this point on. I know from experience.
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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jewelchild View Post
    The whole Bible thing does get frustrating, since I can think of just as many verses requiring people to separate themselves from or "shun" non believers. I dunno. Trying to avoid a big debate, so I won't post them.
    Yes, mostly in the epistles with Paul trying to instruct early church gatherings how to handle pertinent problems at the time. But exile based on the cleanliness rules was also predominate in the Old Testament.

    To me, what always stuck out was that Jesus hung out for dinner and fun times with tax collectors, prostitutes, and other social "uncleanlies" in the eyes of the day's religious establishment, and not out of charity but because he actually seemed to enjoy being with them... and got crucified in part for that, since the religious puritans considered him a violator of the Law and a blasphemer.

    I figure Jesus' behavior to be the baseline for how to interpret these other texts.

    But you're right, it doesn't fix the family issue, and there's no way to force families to stick together; it's all individual choice, discretion, and commitment. I wish people felt freer to go by their relational commitment to each other, rather than applying external rules that end up sundering the relationships.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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