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  1. #21
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    for me i kinda flip these two ideologies around to understand infp/infj.....in other words, it's the opposite for me.

    overall, the tests don't matter. it's the overall type you should study and see what resonates best. reading infp/infj posts on here can help a lot, i think. i've seen some people on here say they are infj, but i suspect, from their writing style they are more infp. but everyone is on their own journey. i think infps tend to elaborate much much more trying to pinpoint down to the nth degree the feeling(s) they are trying to convey, and feel strongly that they want other to understand them in that. whereas, i think, infjs are more general and not so detailed in the conveyance of their experiences, as a general rule......haha.

    there are so many threads on here about the two....you should be able to figure it out pretty well. and if you can't label yourself after ALL that, you're probably infp, cuz many times infps don't like being labeled at all.
    if i had to guess off the top of my head i would guess you were an enfp. something about your energy and the way you write/organize your thoughts feels more enfp to me than anything else. what's your enneagram type, that might explain some of the difference i perceive?

    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    This confusion seems to be a *really* common problem. I've flip-flopped myself. I am quite organized by nature which seems J in the end, but am also open-ended by nature and it is hard to impose myself or ideas onto reality.

    When the MBTI tests equate Fe with being a good host, then I score quite low. It is often associated with being extroverted in being aware of and attending to the emotional needs of everyone in an environment. I think that is one thing that can cause confusion for the INFJ. I absorb the emotions in my environment, but am not inclined towards hosting.

    I also find overlapping stereotypes for INFJ and INFP that describe both as flexible and both as stubborn. It appears that what some people assume is INFJ others assume is INFP and vice versa.

    Another possible point of confusion is that those who test as INF tend to be introspective and focus on personal authenticity. This could also reasonably be the same individual most likely to see discrepancies between an actual person and a prescribed system of personality. I've read some people discover a type and reorganize their thinking to be more like the description. The person who tests as INF could be more likely to try to adjust the description or keep looking for the best one rather than adjusting self to fit a description. Also, INFJ and INFP together comprise all 8 functions, so confusion between these two types is somewhat of an elegant solution to function confusion and/or an awareness of using all eight. This covers all possible bases for behavior in the MBTI system.
    i didn't ever really perceive myself as an infp. i flip-flopped between infj and intp for a while bc i strongly identified with Ti. i think that has a lot to do with a type 5 enneagram ego fixation. when i understood Fe vs Fi, that was what sealed my understanding of infj vs infp. it was the clearest way in which we are totally different. there is also the fact that ultimately infps are dominant judgers (dominant introverted feelers) and we are dominant perceivers (dominant introverted intuitives). we both are dealing with a complex mish mash of a network, but ours changes more easily, more completely, with new information, whereas introverted feeling takes longer to build on top of. mostly, introverted intuition has an easier time using an eraser to clean up past mistakes, attach to new information, whereas introverted feeling takes much more concerted repeated effort to build new connections on top of old patterns and the way the webs of relationship are interpreted in terms of how i connect to it and who it makes me, etc. introverted feeling is slower to change, but more assured it is right in its assertions.

    i am still trying to figure out the connection, but some infps still shock me in their similarity to infjs. really super-charged Ne infps are something to behold. then Te helps too.

  2. #22
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    if i had to guess off the top of my head i would guess you were an enfp. something about your energy and the way you write/organize your thoughts feels more enfp to me than anything else. what's your enneagram type, that might explain some of the difference i perceive?
    well, i'm glad you brought it up.

    i haven't really questionned my infj-ness, because i've not only taken numerous, different tests to confirm but i've read pretty much every type description i can get my hands on, in print and online, and identify strongly with infj, and always have, even when i cast my mind back to childhood and how i was then. but i know what you mean about the way i write on here, and being a bit (or quite a bit) more callous or blunt, and also more intense in my posts, and in relating with others on here (which is also how i am in real life, but with lesser frequency because i'm usually home).

    the differences in intrapersonality typing are my latest interest. what makes one person of a certain type so different from another person of the same type? i know some turn to socionics for understanding, but i've always found mbti and the functions in that to be pretty intuitive for me, so i'm not really interested (yet) in socionics. so, to delve further, i've bought and read (this past weekend) the functions of type book. i have found john beebe's hypothesis regarding the typical, preordained function sequence of each type to not ring true for my husband and i, and i therefore suspect maybe it doesn't for others either. through testing and reflecting more on the eight functions, i think i've gleened some interesting insights into just why i might seem so different from other infj, IF beebe's hypothesis is generally right for the majority of infj. i encourage other types, including infj, to use this book (or some other methodology) to identify their functions for comparison or for their own study.

    i wrote in my signature that i'm Fe>Te, but in testing in this book (and this book is still pretty vague-but it's a good start down the functions road-i think functions testing is still a fairly primitive realm, at least in the lay public) i found i am pretty nearly Fe=Te. so upon further reflection, i do identify a bit more with Fe over Te, but i can use both comfortably, and do so without effort. so as Te is concerned with managing systems and being efficient and merging patterns, i am less likely to perhaps be as meandering about my feelings or others' when my Fe rubs up against the more factual and efficient Te. and when this all (Fe, Te) combines with my inferior function of Ne, that is where, i believe, my feisty nature kicks in. and this might also be where, in your intuitiveness, you feel me as 'enfp.'

    this study has now spurned in me a new avenue for thought which is how our life circumstances enhance or stagnate our functions. my third, or teriary, function (which develops between the ages of 20-35), according to beebe should be Ti (my 5th), yet my Te is hulkish by comparison. why? does it have something to do with becoming a mother at 24, and 'managing' a household 24/7? perhaps, but i don't know yet. i remember my teenage years fairly clearly and i utilized Te strongly even then, but i had to be very independent in my life because, while i never doubted my parents' affection and love for me, i didn't have much guidance as my mother had divorced and moved a half hour away, and my dad was my guardian and an alcoholic. so, perhaps at that point (8-18 years old) my Fe had to make room for the pragmatic Te? or maybe i just got a healthy genetic dose of both Feeling and Thinking.

    i find it even more interesting that my least developed function, Se, which john beebe says is 'supposed' to be my inferior or 4th function, also happens to be my husband's primary function. Si is my 7th function, and Si is my husband's teriary function. i think (or suspect) that i just came to rely on him for his expert use of Se and Si as it was more efficient (Te in me) to develop another perceiver function (Ne) at that point than waste time being redundant about Se.

    fascinating stuff really. to me!! hah!

    because i've always enjoyed reading your meandering but highly intuitive and educated, spot-on infj thoughts, i will not take offense at your questionning of my personality type, which i've come to know (and you must know being as insightful an infj as you are) first-hand is sort-of a 'no-no' in this culture. indeed, i appreciate the opportunity to reflect and purge about it.

    any functions nerds' input will be welcomed..............and, if you've made it this far, genuine thanks for reading.
    Last edited by AphroditeGoneAwry; 06-08-2009 at 04:30 AM. Reason: ps. in my limited testing, i am ennegram 4w3, but i have gotten different results, so i don't feel very confident in that.
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
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    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  3. #23
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    i think it's definitely true that life experiences drastically effect the way a person cultivates and activates/actualizes their functions. i think the basic idea behind having a prescribed function order a la myers briggs and specificallly the lenore thomson version of jungian psychology is that they are connected in a sort of pattern of development, similarly to how the enneagram points are connected as a fuluid sort of behavorial transformation (even if the idea is really you DO start from a very specific point and that it IS for the most part your type).

    you remind me of enfp for a number of reasons. your writing gives me the impression of Ne more than Ni. you seem to have the enp type energy, just a flood of associations, and i can definitely see very strong Te in you that comes out much more so than Ti. i don't see you in real life but on here i also get a sense of Fi more than Fe. the very base kind of ways of associating Fe vs Fi can be somewhat murky. Fi types can be very very advanced and very sensitive to the feelings of others. Fe just gets its feelings from others, and Fi makes its own. that's pretty much it. Fe is really attuned and like super sensitive on the outside, it is more receptive on the skin and the eyes and the hands than the heart, gentle but compassion is more awareness and attunement than feeling with you. we reconstruct your feelings via contextual clues, signs/symbols, and ideas, by imagining what it would feel like and what that given articulation would mean in terms of our experience with the Other. enfp is perceptive simililarly, but more rooted in its own stored subjective experience for judgment (than ours based more so on articulation, outward expression, language, etc).

    my best friend is an entp 4w3. i identify 4w3 more with enp and ifp at first glance more than infj as well, altho that needn't suggest anything and could explain some of the perceived difference. for some reason our limited interaction just really reminds me of enfp-infj more than infj, altho they do have many many similarities including N-F-T-S as their basic function order, even if they are oriented in opposite ways each time. enfp just has a lot more push to engage the actual world than the introverted infj does, which lives more on the in-between/the fringes (oh, theory!). also, my 4w3 entp friend assumed he was introverted based on his life circumstances. but then we became roommates and he knocks on my door everyday and i am going to my room to be alone much of teh time and it's very obvious the difference. it takes a lot more time for Ni to adjust to new circumstances than the shockingly adaptive and creative Ne. we take a lot of fucking time to just sift, sift, sift in teh background until we are masterful. both can be highly self-conscious, which is the ultimate joy of nf and part of the practical struggle that give birth to our greatest skillset, the cultivation and activation/actualization of human socio-symbolic potential and possibility.

    ps as far as enneagram based differences, i'm an enneagram 5w4, so i sit back and work out my shit for an extra long while. it helps emphasize Ti, which super-charges Ni (organized!), but as my wing has emerged more prevalently my Fe has woken up and helped me fight for space in the real and actual world, articulate and express myself via Fe rather than just feeling my body absorb it from outside and not know how to redirect it into action, change, expression of desires, etc.

  4. #24
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    I tested ENFJ yesterday, because I'm usually a pretty organized person and that's what the questions ask for. I regularly test as any and all of the ENxx types.

    If you exhibit the strengths or weaknesses of both items of some given dichotomy, it can be difficult to type yourself.

    So I suppose you have to look at type from multiple angles, including independent dichotomies, function order, and type descriptions.

  5. #25
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    thanks for your lengthy and thoughtful response. i don't really know what to say. i reviewed (again) enfp type descriptions and i can relate highly with them for sure. if i could merge infj/enfp into one person, that person would definitely be me, but i suspect many/most people can identify with more than one personality type, especially the longer you live and the more experiences you have.

    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    you remind me of enfp for a number of reasons. your writing gives me the impression of Ne more than Ni. you seem to have the enp type energy, just a flood of associations, and i can definitely see very strong Te in you that comes out much more so than Ti. i don't see you in real life but on here i also get a sense of Fi more than Fe. the very base kind of ways of associating Fe vs Fi can be somewhat murky. Fi types can be very very advanced and very sensitive to the feelings of others. Fe just gets its feelings from others, and Fi makes its own. that's pretty much it. Fe is really attuned and like super sensitive on the outside, it is more receptive on the skin and the eyes and the hands than the heart, gentle but compassion is more awareness and attunement than feeling with you. we reconstruct your feelings via contextual clues, signs/symbols, and ideas, by imagining what it would feel like and what that given articulation would mean in terms of our experience with the Other. enfp is perceptive simililarly, but more rooted in its own stored subjective experience for judgment (than ours based more so on articulation, outward expression, language, etc).
    i'm not really sure what to say to that, except that i'm no idiot and after careful contemplation with my new functions book, i painstakingly read about each and every function and took each function 'test' at least twice on different days with a clear mind. and regardless of your perception of me, my function order stands as is, at least for the time being.

    you may feel like i feel like an enfp to you, and i have a lot of respect for that because i have a similar experience with infps.........enough to know i am no Fi dominant girl. and Ne is my inferior function. my new book (written by the Hartzlers) describes Ne as the Brainstormer function. i can brainstorm, but it's not my preferred way of thinking, unless i find something very intriguing or a situation demands it. i also (as it says in my book) don't always seek to make things better. i am perfectly happy with the same ol thing day in and day out, once i get it the way i like it (which can take some time and energy). Ni is described as a Seer. i am more like this. i get insights into how things ultimately can be, and i can easily interpret intent behind a situation or communication.

    i have a friend who tests enfp and she is a lot like me, so i know what you are talking about. where we seem to differ is that she has more energy than me on a sustained level, meaning, i get bursts of energy, then have to take time to recuperate (like a week or a few weeks) until the next burst of energy, whereas she's always game for the next exciting event, even if they occur back to back to back. she's also a lot more spontaneous than i am. the other day she was at my potluck (Fe trait--pulling people together), and we were talking about how i needed a new pair of jeans. she said she could go with me to buy jeans and to lunch too. i'm thinking to myself, "okay i've been putting off shopping for new jeans for months now, and i guess while i'm out lunch could be okay," but before i could even really acknowledge that i thought that would be okay (i still didn't really want to commit to all that--haha) she burst out with, "and we can have pam (a mutual acquiantance) along too." and yada, yada, yada. i'm like, "whoa, girl, put the brakes on. that's way too much for me." so, she's starting to figure me out that way (over time) and give me some space. and, btw, the shopping trip didn't happen. i was too drained from throwing that potluck. also, an interesting tidbit, the 2 exfps i know both filed bankruptcy. don't know if that's pertinent or not, but i see that they have a hard time going without something they want, even when they can't really afford it, material or event-wise (like concerts).


    my best friend is an entp 4w3. i identify 4w3 more with enp and ifp at first glance more than infj as well, altho that needn't suggest anything and could explain some of the perceived difference. for some reason our limited interaction just really reminds me of enfp-infj more than infj, altho they do have many many similarities including N-F-T-S as their basic function order, even if they are oriented in opposite ways each time. enfp just has a lot more push to engage the actual world than the introverted infj does, which lives more on the in-between/the fringes (oh, theory!). also, my 4w3 entp friend assumed he was introverted based on his life circumstances. but then we became roommates and he knocks on my door everyday and i am going to my room to be alone much of teh time and it's very obvious the difference. it takes a lot more time for Ni to adjust to new circumstances than the shockingly adaptive and creative Ne. we take a lot of fucking time to just sift, sift, sift in teh background until we are masterful. both can be highly self-conscious, which is the ultimate joy of nf and part of the practical struggle that give birth to our greatest skillset, the cultivation and activation/actualization of human socio-symbolic potential and possibility.
    well, i may not be in your 'we' scenario there in your brain, but i sit and sift too. and i'm pretty introverted, like i don't answer the phone hardly ever and i don't see friends but every couple weeks usually.

    as far as enneagram based differences, i'm an enneagram 5w4, so i sit back and work out my shit for an extra long while. it helps emphasize Ti, which super-charges Ni (organized!), but as my wing has emerged more prevalently my Fe has woken up and helped me fight for space in the real and actual world, articulate and express myself via Fe rather than just feeling my body absorb it from outside and not know how to redirect it into action, change, expression of desires, etc.
    i'll take the enneagram again when i have time. i think i've gotten 2 a couple times. but 4 seemed more like me last time i tested.

    have a good one.
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
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    ~Torah observant, Christ inspired~
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    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  6. #26
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    I came across a good website about this. They listed a variety of ways in which INFJs differed from INFPs. Can't remember the site, but it's easy to google. Anyway, one thing that I took away from it as a deciding factor was how you communicate. INFJs tend to give instruction or make their wishes known more directly. INFPs tend to be more indirect, hoping someone will infer what they are really asking for.

    INFPs I know are also less aware of physical needs than INFJs. There's a good thread on this here called INFP vs INFJ. There are a number of differences listed.

    I tested almost even, but am definitely INFJ after reading more about both types.

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