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  1. #61
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Always good to know there will be INFJ's up for grabs then. o/
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  2. #62
    Senior Member tibby's Avatar
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    I'm always striving forward, to the most actualized state there is, that the state itself never gets actualized. It's hazy and always somewhere else except here. Therefore I can never be completely satisfied with the present - that wouldn't motivate me to move forward.

    Maybe it applies to marital dissatisfaction as well.

  3. #63
    Seriously Delirious Udog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    I understand and do the same thing. But the question is why talk about it? I never discuss problems if I know I don't want to hear anyone run their mouth off with their opinions...
    I'm not sure if you'll get to this answer, but Rhapsody and heart's answers are both very good. NFs are subjective, personal, emotional in general.

    For what it's worth, I always welcome constructive feedback, as long as the emotions themselves aren't dismissed. Tell me what actions I can change to make myself happier, but please never tell me I'm an idiot for being unhappy.

    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    However, while not entirely predictive, studies shown that idealization of marriage and/or the person you marry has a positive correlation to length and happiness in marriage. It's not terribly surprising - going into something with optimism seems to generate a more positive outcome. Other longitudinal studies support this indirectly, with concepts before marriage playing a fairly significant role. The argument here would be that false expectations are a downside, however it doesn't seem to be a case (least as far as it relates to personality or effect). Hard to say for sure, since it's not really looked at directly... but in all of these situations, the major effect is the lack of communication.
    That's pretty cool, and is definitely good news for us 'idealists'.

    I think, regardless of type, idealism becomes bad when we take it too far and it becomes delusion. I can't speak for INFJs, but I know that INFPs have certain mental processes and fundamental needs that can make us vulnerable of idealizing a person/relationship, and then deluding ourselves when they aren't fulfilling those needs.

    Another interesting thing about this is that the top complaints in relationships really have very little to do with personal interaction. Most people can pair up and be happy, given that the basic framework is in place. It's issues like money, children and mate-guarding that top the list... when you regress issues, there is some connection to personality... but more interesting is if you also look at the correlations to certain types and the big three issues, you find the same correlation.
    Hmm... do you have any more thoughts on this? There's a bridge between how I'm viewing this (very theoretical and what if) and how you are viewing this (bottom line, what has research shown) that I'd like to try and build.

    I do think with the INF_s, personal interaction does play a role in the big three. Usually we have very strong feelings on at least one of the big three (which one or ones depends on the person), but, these issues can lead to major conflict. I can totally see an INF avoid these issues, in an attempt to avoid conflict, early in the relationship when they most need to be addressed to determine long-term compatibility.

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Great. That just makes my day :sad:
    I think the second you deal with this potential in an honest manner is the second you greatly reduce the chances of this happening to you. I don't think idealism is our problem, it's that we delude ourselves with the idealism.

  4. #64
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    My impression is that people who do the best in marriage can communicate directly and take things for what they are. For example, if it's important to you to have chocolates, roses, and a fancy dinner for your birthday, you tell your spouse, "I need such and such for my birthday". He then provides this and you are happy. Or you say, "I need you to spend time with me" and he may interrupt his favorite activity to oblige. I can view and respect that process, but it would leave me mortified.

    There is a way it goes fundamentally against my nature to just state needs like that and then be satisfied. I don't want to pressure or change the person. I want to know exactly who they are and connect according to the natural process. I am a direct communicator, but I don't like the idea of asserting myself onto another person. Imperfections are not the issue. Imposing on someone in a personal way is the absolute issue.

    One of my worst fears is to have someone feel beholden to me because of an emotional contract when it goes against their natural inclination. I don't want someone to work too hard to love me.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  5. #65
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Are there benefits in existing at emotional extremes?
    I love being at or near a state of unipolar mania at all times.
    I don't want any medication.
    I'm having a fantastic time, quite frankly.

  6. #66
    Temporal Mechanic. Lexicon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by little.bad.apple View Post
    According to a certain typology webpage, the INFJ is the highest of all types in marital dissatisfaction, and the INFP is the second highest of all types

    Here's the link. PersonalityDesk - Learning Center - INFP in Careers, Relationships, Leadership, Parenting

    Now, this makes sense because both types tend to be quite idealistic, and presumably their high standards can be difficult to reconcile with reality. I know that's true in my case. So, any thoughts/experience on the matter? It would be great to know other INFP/INFJ opinions

    Considering I've resolved to be a spinster/Reclusive Cat-Lady at the ripe old age of 24, I believe this must ring true, at least, a little bit.
    03/23 06:06:58 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:06:59 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:21:34 Nancynobullets: LEXXX *sacrifices a first born*
    03/23 06:21:53 Nancynobullets: We summon yooouuu
    03/23 06:29:07 Lexicon: I was sleeping!



    04/25 04:20:35 Patches: Don't listen to lex. She wants to birth a litter of kittens. She doesnt get to decide whats creepy

    02/16 23:49:38 ygolo: Lex is afk
    02/16 23:49:45 Cimarron: she's doing drugs with Jack

    03/05 19:27:41 Time: You can't make chat morbid. Lex does it naturally.

  7. #67
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    My impression is that people who do the best in marriage can communicate directly and take things for what they are. For example, if it's important to you to have chocolates, roses, and a fancy dinner for your birthday, you tell your spouse, "I need such and such for my birthday". He then provides this and you are happy. Or you say, "I need you to spend time with me" and he may interrupt his favorite activity to oblige. I can view and respect that process, but it would leave me mortified.
    what about if it's important to you to have sex with other people cuz you never did that much when you were younger...? "hey, baby, i need to explore my sexuality more now, so i need to have sex with others." roses and fancy dinners are easy, frankly. it's when you get into the real nitty gritty of the big 3, or figuring out where you stop and they begin that it becomes the hardest shit you ever did in your life.

    There is a way it goes fundamentally against my nature to just state needs like that and then be satisfied. I don't want to pressure or change the person. I want to know exactly who they are and connect according to the natural process. I am a direct communicator, but I don't like the idea of asserting myself onto another person. Imperfections are not the issue. Imposing on someone in a personal way is the absolute issue.
    really? this was an issue for me in finding a mate, but not in keeping one. i have no problem being very direct about what i need or think i need. i thought infj were pretty direct beings.?

    One of my worst fears is to have someone feel beholden to me because of an emotional contract when it goes against their natural inclination. I don't want someone to work too hard to love me.
    totally with you here. i might cling to you, but i WILL NOT let you cling to me if you think you'd do better somewhere else.
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  8. #68
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Yes that's possible and it's called neuroticism and at worst it's bipolar disorder. Are there benefits in existing at emotional extremes?
    Makes life more romantic. All the romantics were bipolar. Coming back from a low is like being reborn.

    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    I love being at or near a state of unipolar mania at all times.
    I don't want any medication.
    I'm having a fantastic time, quite frankly.
    Yes, you just have to find a way to enjoy the lows.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  9. #69
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    what about if it's important to you to have sex with other people cuz you never did that much when you were younger...? "hey, baby, i need to explore my sexuality more now, so i need to have sex with others." roses and fancy dinners are easy, frankly. it's when you get into the real nitty gritty of the big 3, or figuring out where you stop and they begin that it becomes the hardest shit you ever did in your life.
    I haven't encountered that, but if someone approached me with that, I wouldn't stop them, but I would end the relationship because it wouldn't fit my ability to form intimacy. The key is that I would not tell them "please don't do it and love me instead". I would say, "go ahead, but I can't keep up with that emotionally. It would hurt me, but I'd rather you go through with it than spend a lifetime wishing and spending time with me out of obligation". Once that desire is introduced it would hurt whether they did it or just sat around longing to do it but they couldn't because I kept them from it.

    Being alone can hurt, but it is always an option as is finding someone more compatible. These scenarios of emotional obligation are worse to me than being alone. Marriage as a conception is neither positive or negative in my mind. It's value is measured entirely by its implementation by specific people in my view.

    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    really? this was an issue for me in finding a mate, but not in keeping one. i have no problem being very direct about what i need or think i need. i thought infj were pretty direct beings.?
    I am rather split on the P and J thing. My partner in my life now considers me an INFP. He says there are no signs of a J that he can see. I more often test as INFJ and my family would say I am a J. I'm direct in that I can say, "I end up feeling hurt when you do X. This is how I view it based on my experience and perception. I am not asking you to stop doing X because that is your right and choice." I feel responsible for my own reactions and struggle with issues of shame when I impose on others emotionally. It isn't up to me to change the person, it is up to me to choose how to respond.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  10. #70
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Udog View Post
    I'm not sure if you'll get to this answer, but Rhapsody and heart's answers are both very good. NFs are subjective, personal, emotional in general.

    For what it's worth, I always welcome constructive feedback, as long as the emotions themselves aren't dismissed. Tell me what actions I can change to make myself happier, but please never tell me I'm an idiot for being unhappy.
    I've read their answers and can understand their thought processes, but still am not satisfied. I supposed it's because if I hear about the same problem over and over again, I just want to throttle someone if the solution is very simple. Let's be honest here, in most situations, someone will complain about the same problem for weeks rather than take moves to fix it. Or s/he will complain about a no good partner constantly but get upset with you for suggesting s/he leave him/her. I don't know, this may not be the truth, but oftentimes it seems like people just want an audience for their drama. It's not a shameful thing, everyone wants an audience sometimes... but for different reasons, you know what I mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    There is a way it goes fundamentally against my nature to just state needs like that and then be satisfied. I don't want to pressure or change the person.
    +1

    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    what about if it's important to you to have sex with other people cuz you never did that much when you were younger...? "hey, baby, i need to explore my sexuality more now, so i need to have sex with others."
    This is the poorest argument I've seen in a very long time.

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