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[MBTI General] Question for the EXFJs....

G

Glycerine

Guest
My ESFJ dad tends to lose his temper on a regular basis (several times a week) and it is usually very intense. My INFP mom and I approach the situation in completely opposite ways. I usually just detach and stay calm waiting for the emotional storm to pass. I think it's best to let feel his emotion because it seems like an emotional release. It works because he's usually over it in like 5 minutes but then the intensity can really build up and he will feed into it more sometimes. My mom, on the other hand, usually tries to mediate the situation by asking him what's wrong and attempting to calm him down. From what I have noticed, he sometimes calms down but at other times, it just seems to exacerbate the whole situation at which point I tell my mother to just leave him alone. I am starting to think that these episodes are caused by unbridled Fe under immense stress. So EXFJs, if you get really angry about something, do you want to be left alone or do you want someone to try to calm you down? Do you guys have any other suggestions?
 

SpottingTrains

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Jan 21, 2009
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444
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ENFJ
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3w2
You really have to push me very, very far to get me angry. If you actually manage to accomplish this there is no hope for you.
 

Jonathanthegreat

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Apr 30, 2009
Messages
166
MBTI Type
ENFJ
When someone makes me angry it's usually because A.) miscommunication or B.) They are trying to hurt someone I love.

To reconcile, with me at least, you need to approach me like an adult and converse with me in an educated manner on how we can resolve our conflict. It's pretty simple, I guess it's not the same with ESFJ's though, because I find esfjs very irrational at time due to their constant need of control lol.
 
G

Glycerine

Guest
You really have to push me very, very far to get me angry. If you actually manage to accomplish this there is no hope for you.

haha, then you must have a much higher frustration than my dad. My mom and I aren't usually the focus of the anger. It just gets very draining since it occurs frequently.
 
G

Glycerine

Guest
When someone makes me angry it's usually because A.) miscommunication or B.) They are trying to hurt someone I love.

To reconcile, with me at least, you need to approach me like an adult and converse with me in an educated manner on how we can resolve our conflict. It's pretty simple, I guess it's not the same with ESFJ's though, because I find esfjs very irrational at time due to their constant need of control lol.

That might be it. ;) He can handle major emergencies/crises with ease but when it comes to life's little annoyances, he usually freaks out and loses his temper.
 

ENFJ_Catholic

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May 23, 2009
Messages
136
MBTI Type
ENFJ
When someone makes me angry it's usually because A.) miscommunication or B.) They are trying to hurt someone I love.

To reconcile, with me at least, you need to approach me like an adult and converse with me in an educated manner on how we can resolve our conflict. It's pretty simple, I guess it's not the same with ESFJ's though, because I find esfjs very irrational at time due to their constant need of control lol.

I'd agree on what happens when someone makes me angry. It's usually miscommunication or an attack on someone I love. We have a tendency to want to sweep things clean (under rugs) like ESFJs, but more so we'd like frank communication (not always control).

In fact, we'd probably relinquish control first before losing harmony. It's only in rare, rare cases where I'd see the lust of control coming into play there. Those SJs are a different bunch though...stubborn ones they are... In a good way! :yes:
 

The Grand Chameleon

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May 23, 2009
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144
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ENTJ
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3w2
So EXFJs, if you get really angry about something, do you want to be left alone or do you want someone to try to calm you down?

Retreating into ourselves causes negative thoughts to fester, which if unleashed would be something like that commercial for "Wolverine" the video game. In personal experience, having another party to exchange concerns with always helps to abate the fury. Especially if it's the guilty party, who must have a genuine desire for reconciliation.

This brings up an interesting thought: As for ESFJ vs ENFJ, how would anger manifest itself in the physical realm? In my experience, ESFJs tend to express their anger immediately and without restraint, wherever and whenever the instigation occurs. I've never met another ENFJ IRL, but I personally convert anger --> irritation, and as it swells over time bits and bits are irradiated to the outside world. This may take the form of exclusion from activities, disregard of opinion, and in extreme cases, attacks on their value system.

You really have to push me very, very far to get me angry. If you actually manage to accomplish this there is no hope for you.

Where is your personal limit?
 

ENFJ_Catholic

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136
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ENFJ
Well stated, GC. It's often the case that a retreat would cause things to fester and not heal over. We, by default, clamor for harmony.
 
G

Glycerine

Guest
Retreating into ourselves causes negative thoughts to fester, which if unleashed would be something like that commercial for "Wolverine" the video game. In personal experience, having another party to exchange concerns with always helps to abate the fury. Especially if it's the guilty party, who must have a genuine desire for reconciliation.

This brings up an interesting thought: As for ESFJ vs ENFJ, how would anger manifest itself in the physical realm? In my experience, ESFJs tend to express their anger immediately and without restraint, wherever and whenever the instigation occurs. I've never met another ENFJ IRL, but I personally convert anger --> irritation, and as it swells over time bits and bits are irradiated to the outside world. This may take the form of exclusion from activities, disregard of opinion, and in extreme cases, attacks on their value system.



Where is your personal limit?

That sounds like my dad A LOT. I apologize. I assumed that this behavior was primarily stressed out Fe so I thought ESFJs and ENFJs would act similarly. :doh:
 

proteanmix

Plumage and Moult
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
5,514
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1w2
Don't get mad, get glad! Once again the ENFJ nobility rears it's head.

I've got a temper and I can be an unholy terror. I'm not just walking around being an angry person though flipping off on anyone who looks at me wrong. People react to stress and suboptimal situations in different ways. Some people mentally, emotionally, and physically go AWOL. Others :)hi:) go running towards Gomorrah. Personally, if I'm already in a heightened state of stress then little things can tick me off and I react towards them. I typically unleash this sort of behavior on those closest to me and I feel like a detestable dredge of a person when I do.

I have also reached the conclusion that I'm an escalator and I take situations to whole different levels of insanity. It's my gift to the world. :) Even I realize that my reaction doesn't match the situation but the small triggers tend not to be the base cause of my frustration. Because I realize this about myself, I ere on the side of extreme caution and remain uninvolved to the point of detachment with most situations and people, but it's not a natural detachment so it takes a strange form.

I read somewhere that people's greatest strengths also tend to be their greatest weaknesses, their tragic flaw. I'm a very decisive person, and I typically have a rough outline in my head of what direction I think I should go in and if people want to follow me into the jungle I have a rough outline for that as well. I've noticed what tends to frustrate me is when people don't know what they want after I feel like I've opened up channels of communication (and I'm further realizing that just because people think they have done something doesn't mean they have accomplished what they intended to do) to get us on the same page. I like to talk about interpersonal problems and get them solved ASAP (which I also realize that sometimes things need to sit for awhile and they'll solve themselves). Ideally, I try to operate in what's fair and reasonable to expect from myself and others. But the worse thing you can do to me is not communicate anything, not say anything, not do anything. Silence is a form of communication, but it's the most nebulous form and people can project whatever they want into that void. Some people take silence as acquiescence and others think the world is ending.

But this is the tug of war of personality forces at work. I don't accept that the way I do things are wrong per se, my pushing has net positive benefits too often for me to outright disregard what I do. I put things front and center, good and bad. I'm just as likely to gushingly heap praises and shower them with sparkles and pixie dust. I'm wondering if this actually reinforces bad Fe in someway and many ExFJs pick this up...that people don't like when they're openly negative but adore when they're openly positive. Once again it's a healthy balance to me. The same mechanism produces the same behaviors. I'm not going to speak for all ExFJs but I'll point out the elephant is in the room banging on pots and pans. The thing is knowing when to back off and when to push and when to switch methods when one isn't working. One thing I've noticed with my INTP and ISTP siblings is that nothing really hits five alarm with them and they're very slow and passive responders even when a quick response is necessary. I may be overreacting but are they underreacting? Are all of us reacting with rather extreme responses only in opposite directions?

I'm trying to create strategies to deal with human ugliness and not treat it like it's some asteroid that hits the planet once every hundred million years. Conflict is such a common thing and people deal with it badly across the board. We see the fruits of people dealing with it badly on the news every night, in our homes, in our relationships, within ourselves, it's just as ubiquitous as air. We even enjoy it for entertainment value when we're not directly involved in it. Being comfortable with a certain level of disharmony is a necessary coping mechanism, we even have hormones in a bodies made to deal with such things. Living in a constant state of turmoil is acidic to any person and many issues stemming from this are lifelong struggles to overcome.
 

wrldisquiethere

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Apr 2, 2009
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233
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xSFJ
Enneagram
2w1
Retreating into ourselves causes negative thoughts to fester, which if unleashed would be something like that commercial for "Wolverine" the video game. In personal experience, having another party to exchange concerns with always helps to abate the fury. Especially if it's the guilty party, who must have a genuine desire for reconciliation.

This brings up an interesting thought: As for ESFJ vs ENFJ, how would anger manifest itself in the physical realm? In my experience, ESFJs tend to express their anger immediately and without restraint, wherever and whenever the instigation occurs. I've never met another ENFJ IRL, but I personally convert anger --> irritation, and as it swells over time bits and bits are irradiated to the outside world. This may take the form of exclusion from activities, disregard of opinion, and in extreme cases, attacks on their value system.



Where is your personal limit?
Here's how I am:

If I am angry at the person who is wanting to talk about it, I frequently will want to think about it for quite awhile before I talk about it. The reason for this is that I like to try to formulate a way of approaching the problem that will be least offensive. The pro is that by taking some time to think, I often calm down and can get to the bottom of what is really bothering me. The con is that often I will sit and think about it for so long that I decide to not address the problem at all, which means that NEXT time it's a problem, my emotional response to that problem is magnified.

If I am angry at someone else, I will usually want to talk about it with someone. However, I am not a gossip and won't want to just vent to anyone who can hear me. I'll find someone close to me (family member or best friend) and I will bitch about it. If that person acts uninterested or like they wish I would stop talking, it aggravates me to no end. Usually I am looking for validation that my feelings are not ridiculous and that I have a right to be upset. However, I usually prefer to vent to someone who will also approach me practically and honestly. Usually it's good to hear "I'm sorry" (to me, translated is "it's ok that you feel this way") "but maybe that's not what so-and-so meant" (translated "it will help if you try to look at this situation objectively") or "Why don't you try _____?" (translated "I want to help you mend this situation if possible" or "You have the strength and ability to mend this."). I hope that makes sense.

Well stated, GC. It's often the case that a retreat would cause things to fester and not heal over. We, by default, clamor for harmony.
Agreed.
 

Domino

ENFJ In Chains
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11,429
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sx/so
It's a matter of learning where your red line exists so you don't blow up on people. There's two ways to go with me - 1. letting me settle down on my own unmolested, or 2. grab the rake out of my hand so I'll stop beating things.

I kid. (Or do I?!)

Fe, not properly controlled, results in explosions. I know that I'm wound tight, and I tend to show it by a long mumbled string of sarcastic "observations" about whatever is provoking me (I share this trait with the INFJs I know). I realize that I'm not in a good place when I start doing that. I run completely out of patience and go into "executioner" mode. It helps that I have others around me on a daily basis who can point out to me that I'm slipping. I don't always catch it. I'm a cranky crab apple anyway. *laughs* :D
 

wrldisquiethere

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Apr 2, 2009
Messages
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xSFJ
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2w1
It's a matter of learning where your red line exists so you don't blow up on people. There's two ways to go with me - 1. letting me settle down on my own unmolested, or 2. grab the rake out of my hand so I'll stop beating things.

I kid. (Or do I?!)

Fe, not properly controlled, results in explosions. I know that I'm wound tight, and I tend to show it by a long mumbled string of sarcastic "observations" about whatever is provoking me (I share this trait with the INFJs I know). I realize that I'm not in a good place when I start doing that. I run completely out of patience and go into "executioner" mode. It helps that I have others around me on a daily basis who can point out to me that I'm slipping. I don't always catch it. I'm a cranky crab apple anyway. *laughs* :D
I have this tendency sometimes, too, when I'm trying to hold something in.

And by the way, just for the record, when I said before that I like to get alone and think about a problem before talking to the person whom the problem involves, what I really mean is getting off by myself and talking through it verbally. Any time there is a conflict, I hold multiple conversations with that person by myself before I actually have the conversation with the other person present. :blush:
 

Domino

ENFJ In Chains
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Nov 5, 2007
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11,429
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4w3
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sx/so
I like to have my time to process too. Anything rushing me through how I feel about something, esp a strong or unpleasant feeling, gets met with resentment and resistance. I hate having to walk through my feelings right in front of people.

I hold my feelings in A LOT. My sis and I got into a serious disagreement the other day and I wound up breaking down in tears and frustration, not because of her, but because of what we were talking about.

I had no idea I was still so deeply angry about it, so resentful. I must have buried it miles below the surface. I guess it was the only way I could cope with it. I'm always startled by these small earthquakes but I suppose I shouldn't be... I'm so busy processing other peoples' feelings that mine submarine.
 

wrldisquiethere

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Apr 2, 2009
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2w1
I get you. :) How many times have I started crying and started verbalizing feelings that I didn't know where there? I don't know, but it's happened quite a bit. I've ended many a conversation (whether by myself or with someone else) by saying, "Wow, I didn't realize that was even bothering me."
 

Domino

ENFJ In Chains
Joined
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sx/so
Werd.

Sometimes I feel like I'm a bottomless pit that feelings get flung down. They disappear in the blackness and resurface at strange moments. Anyone see that one scene in "Aeon Flux" where she's down the "well"? That could be my psyche. It really could. Sometimes I feel like I've got other people inside my head that are no longer there, like fingerprints on a window.
 

ENFJ_Catholic

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I read somewhere that people's greatest strengths also tend to be their greatest weaknesses, their tragic flaw.

The greatest of sinners can become the greatest of saints, if only they are able to realize how to channel their own gifts. :yes:
 
G

Glycerine

Guest
Thank you guys for all the input. I will most definitely consider all this.
 

Kungpowish

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May 7, 2009
Messages
103
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two
My ESFJ dad tends to lose his temper on a regular basis (several times a week) and it is usually very intense. My INFP mom and I approach the situation in completely opposite ways. I usually just detach and stay calm waiting for the emotional storm to pass. I think it's best to let feel his emotion because it seems like an emotional release. It works because he's usually over it in like 5 minutes but then the intensity can really build up and he will feed into it more sometimes. My mom, on the other hand, usually tries to mediate the situation by asking him what's wrong and attempting to calm him down. From what I have noticed, he sometimes calms down but at other times, it just seems to exacerbate the whole situation at which point I tell my mother to just leave him alone. I am starting to think that these episodes are caused by unbridled Fe under immense stress. So EXFJs, if you get really angry about something, do you want to be left alone or do you want someone to try to calm you down? Do you guys have any other suggestions?

Being left alone give me time to think of all the reasons I'm mad and what I'm going to say and how great my wrathful storm will be, so I prefer to talk it out. But it's only worth doing this if you can approach it the right way. If someone comes and talks to me about why I'm upset I will, with some nudging, tell them, if they then try to explain why they did nothing wrong..... bad things happen.
 

IEE623

New member
Joined
Jul 1, 2008
Messages
196
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NeXx
My ESFJ dad tends to lose his temper on a regular basis (several times a week) and it is usually very intense. My INFP mom and I approach the situation in completely opposite ways. I usually just detach and stay calm waiting for the emotional storm to pass. I think it's best to let feel his emotion because it seems like an emotional release. It works because he's usually over it in like 5 minutes but then the intensity can really build up and he will feed into it more sometimes. My mom, on the other hand, usually tries to mediate the situation by asking him what's wrong and attempting to calm him down. From what I have noticed, he sometimes calms down but at other times, it just seems to exacerbate the whole situation at which point I tell my mother to just leave him alone. I am starting to think that these episodes are caused by unbridled Fe under immense stress. So EXFJs, if you get really angry about something, do you want to be left alone or do you want someone to try to calm you down? Do you guys have any other suggestions?

I think it might have something to do with the auxiliary Si instead of the dominant Fe. All the people that I know who use Si (either aux or dom) explode very easily, since they usually try to be nice while their inner self is upset in some ways. All the contradictions or inner conflicts got built up --> boom boom boom at some point
 
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