[MBTI General] Hurt by inconsistency in someone I like...a lot...

[SilkRoad]

Hi INFJs,

I guess I need some advice from the people who will understand!

I’ve been friends with this guy for most of three years, and for most of that time I have also been attracted to him. I suppose that like many INFJs, I often have a hard time separating what feels like a particularly close friendship with someone of the opposite sex, from the possibility of romance. I think it is possible that he liked me when he first knew me, but that the moment passed with neither of us actively doing anything – or he wasn’t in the right place for a serious relationship, though I think I would have been – and then we went into the friend zone, although still with me hoping for more. (It’s also quite possible that he was only ever interested in me as a friend and I misread some things, though I think I could be forgiven for doing so.)

He hasn’t done the MBTI test (that I know of!) but I think he is either ESTP or ESFP – maybe ESxP? I can’t say I’m too good at typing people without them taking the test! He has a very charming and attractive personality (and is also attractive physically) and is extremely good at knowing what to say to people, and how to act around them, so that he is generally well liked – he certainly has a huge circle of friends and acquaintances. However, a few of my friends who either see through him or think they do say that he’s shallow. He’s an excellent person for a fun and witty conversation, and sometimes for deeper, more reflective conversations. He loves travelling, drinking (though he has been trying to cut back), social occasions (though there he also seems to be trying to cut back…not quite sure about that though), meeting new people, having interesting experiences. He is very fond of his family (his parents and sister – don’t worry, he’s not married!!) and seems to place a lot of value on being close to them. I should mention that we both belong to a faith where dating is viewed as a possible prelude to marriage, so neither of us would embark on casual relationships – although he has loads of female friends and I’m sure at least a few are interested in him, he seems to be avoiding the whole relationship thing quite effectively.

It is also worth noting that we had a period of estrangement last year but got through it eventually. I was tired and angry because he seemed to be using me in various ways (mainly asking me for lots of favours, which normally I am happy to do for my friends) and I wasn’t getting anything back – he was ignoring me a lot, cancelling on me, not bothering to include me, and so on, and I couldn’t understand why, and also I would have to say I was becoming jealous because he seemed to be paying some mutual female friends/acquaintances a lot of special attention (perhaps of the kind I was somewhat used to from him.) I blew up one night and sent him some angry texts about how he was using me, etc etc and he replied (NOT what I had even confronted him about) that apparently it was impossible to be just friends with girls, and friendship was all he wanted. I avoided him for a few months, but he made some overtures as a friend and eventually we had a proper conversation about it and he apologised for being inconsistent with me and if I felt like I was being used.

Subsequently we’ve gone back to a more or less close friendship, although I still have rather confused feelings about him. It is also fair to say that he has been more careful with me. He doesn’t ask me for favours all the time any more, if I do him a favour he makes sure that he really expresses his appreciation, and he backs away if he can see that a conversation we’re having is likely to end with me getting upset. But lately I feel like he is being inconsistent with me again, and it is really troubling me. Over the last month he was texting me all the time – well, every few days anyway, and we’d have these long exchanges (often just about silly in-jokes, that sort of thing, occasionally on more serious subjects). Sometimes I initiated the texting but about as often it was him. He travels a lot and he’d text me before he left on his trip, and when he got back, and he’d text me when I got back from a trip, etc… We also had a couple of good long meaty conversations where we talked about our thoughts about the future, how we feel about the place we live, etc.

Then the last couple of weeks he’s just gone quiet. I thought that possibly he was mad at me because I’d made a slightly stupid/possibly insulting joke at his expense in a text, but honestly, it was not that bad and it would be very unlike him to take offense at something like that, or if he did, it would only last for five minutes – he does forgive and forget. No, it seems like he’s just gone quiet. I didn’t want to start desperately texting or something sad like that but I did text him a couple of times in the last week – once he didn’t reply at all (which is unlike him) and the other time he gave me a rather cold and polite reply. I am just tired of this inconsistency, like one minute I’m his best friend and possibly even more, and then I hardly exist. It is possible that something’s going on with him that I don’t know about – he’s exceptionally busy, he’s upset about something totally unrelated to me, etc - but how am I supposed to know? I don’t think I can really confront him and say “why were you texting me all the time for several weeks, and now you seem to be ignoring me?” This is sort of what led up to our bust-up last year, and I don’t want the same thing to happen again though I could feel the possibility building up.

I do realise that this is mainly about my unrequited feelings for the guy, and I know it is unhealthy to hang onto these, nurture them, and in the process let things like this upset me as much as they do. Since I’m aware that we probably wouldn’t be very good for each other even if he was interested in me, I would love to be able to switch the feelings off, but it’s virtually impossible. I could try to cut him out of my life, but we have too many mutual friends, etc for that to be completely possible, and the fact is, next time he’s acting friendly and wants a good long chat with me, or whatever, I’ll probably go right back to him. I’m just not that tough about friends, particularly guy friends I also have feelings for!

Sorry for rambling on and on…I know this is really long. But if you have any suggestions for how I can approach this situation/this friendship, how I can better deal with these useless and frustrating feelings, etc, I’d really appreciate it.

Thanks all!

 

[Rachelinpa]

I think detachment is your answer. This may involve setting up some rules for yourself. It's the inconsistency that I think is dangerous for us NFs. Naturally, I don't think your guy friend is being intentionally hurtful by his behavior, but it seems that you are vulnerable and he may not know what to do with your feelings (or even be aware of them at all).

In my experiences with certain guy friend ESFPs, it is just better for me to step back regardless of how the situation might look in-the-moment. I let them initiate and I determine that I will not date them even if they change their minds and decide to pursue me. I do that on the basis that I really don't think long term it would be good for me (I'm not sure if that's the case for you, but I sometimes trick myself into thinking we'd be good together--when really, deep down, I know that's not true).

I think we all deserve someone who is 100% totally into us and vice-versa. Oddly enough, it is usually when I decide to step back that they swarm back into my life. They want to make sure they have still captured my attention. And, I let them think that, as my friend, they are the best in the world--and at the same time, I hold back what is most important to me, to keep myself from getting crushed and being resentful when they flit to new strangers or seem to value other relationships over ours (when it makes absolutely no sense at all).

I guess the best thing to do, is to look at the person as objectively as possible. Know their flaws and what you are dealing with. And then, take the necessary precautions to feel safe and like you are not pining over them--recognizing that there will be other suitors out there... that are probably far more suitable!

 

[iwakar]

I second Rachelinpa. If I were you, I would create polite distance. I would set up invisible boundaries within myself to prevent me from "tricking myself" later into believing things could "work out" with him when I knew damn well in a "non-influenced state" that we would not work out long term.

I had a very, very similar situation with an ESFP a year or two ago. Though I miss his lively banter and charming demeanor, I know it is for the best. I think ExxPs in general have a way of creating magnetic interactions with individuals when they are focused on them, but create the same level of repulsion when they turn away from them. IxxJs value consistency and when ExxPs beam their sunshiny rays at someone else 5 minutes after doing the same to you, it creates a lingering resentment that can be hard to shake --especially if it happens more than once.

You know that ...pause... we get immediately before we decide to act on a present whim or fleeting desire? --It usually precludes life choices or romantic pursuits (as we take both very seriously). That moment where your intuition is tapping at your inner door? Don't ignore it. I have several times before and I always end up regretting it. I've learned to give it at least one hard once-over before taking the next step, or for INFJs --the rapid descent into action. It's also the moment that absolves the other person of responsibility for the mistake we are in the process of making, or absolves ourselves for the mistake the other person may attempt.

Whatever you decide, best wishes my dear.

 

[ring the bell]

I understand how you are feeling and I know it's a tough spot to be in. I had a similar situation a year ago, though with a different type(ENTJ). All I can say, really, is that it seems so frustrating while you are dealing with it all but time really will give way to peace with the situation. I think you need to decide whether you want to be his friend or not. It sounds like he isn't really treating you well but your romantic feelings are in the way and not wanting to let go or to let yourself get, justifiably, angry.

You are completely justified in feeling confused and hurt. He's been a good friend but that doesn't give him the right to hurt you. I know it's hard. If I were you, and I know how scary it can be, I would call him up and talk about it... all of it. Or I suppose you could just avoid him for awhile and have another blow up and keep the cycle going.

Oh, and my situation.. I wanted my guy from day 1. We went to the friend zone with an intensity. We were hanging out all the time. I felt like I was getting all sorts of signals. He had a knack for hurting me but I just excused it away because I liked him so much. I finally did have to tell him one day how I felt. It was his reaction that made me finally able to move on. It wasn't kind or sweet and I was finally able to see how much of an asshole he could be, rather than dwelling on all the reasons why he was awesome. We have all the same friends too. We don't actively pursue a friendship with each other anymore but we are cordial when we see each other. I miss those fun times that we spent together, but I'm so glad I don't have to be in super crush mode anymore. i guess for me, I'm very apt to see the good in a guy and fall head over heals for it... so much, in fact, that I too easily excuse away the bad.

 

[Halla74]

I second Rachelinpa. If I were you, I would create polite distance. I would set up invisible boundaries within myself to prevent me from "tricking myself" later into believing things could "work out" with him when I knew damn well in a "non-influenced state" that we would not work out long term.

I had a very, very similar situation with an ESFP a year or two ago. Though I miss his lively banter and charming demeanor, I know it is for the best. I think ExxPs in general have a way of creating magnetic interactions with individuals when they are focused on them, but create the same level of repulsion when they turn away from them. IxxJs value consistency and when ExxPs beam their sunshiny rays at someone else 5 minutes after doing the same to you, it creates a lingering resentment that can be hard to shake --especially if it happens more than once.

You know that ...pause... we get immediately before we decide to act on a present whim or fleeting desire? --It usually precludes life choices or romantic pursuits (as we take both very seriously). That moment where your intuition is tapping at your inner door? Don't ignore it. I have several times before and I always end up regretting it. I've learned to give it at least one hard once-over before taking the next step, or for INFJs --the rapid descent into action. It's also the moment that absolves the other person of responsibility for the mistake we are in the process of making, or absolves ourselves for the mistake the other person may attempt.

Whatever you decide, best wishes my dear.

Great advice, very applicable. Adult mode of attachment is a big deal, maybe moreso or at least just as much as type.

Secure people are generally easy to deal with in a romance, avoidant people can be very hard to albeit not intentionally by them, and anxious persons can become exhausting if they constantly need reassurance for the most trivial of details.

E_ _ Ps are charmers, and we do live in the moment, but do not discount us as insincere, shallow, or unable to commit. Once we do make the decision to commit, it is very real. The worst thing you can do to a E_ _ P in s relationship is make them feel rejected. If this happens too much and feel it is unwarranted we have a tendency to be inclined to move on. It's strange. If you ever date an E _ _ P make sure they understand your type, especially the need for introverts to re-charge, for intuitives to not want to be expected to make decisions on the fly, for NFs the need to be heard and connect on deeper levels (but please define deep for your E _ _ P or they will think you are hiding the ball and playing unfairly), for Fs to not be all about logical problem solving, and for J's to see things in black and white and not the 6,000,000 shades of grey that Ps do.

My (beautiful) wife of 15 years is an INFJ. In theory we are supposed to repel each other like oil and water, but we have made it. It has been a journey at times, but it has hands down been the most wonderful experience of my life to be loved by her.

BTW, ESTPs are one type that has a documented preference for dating/marrying their INFJ opposites. I think ENTJs too...

Opposites do attract, then they attack, then they lick their wounds and have great make up sex.

 

[Winds of Thor]

I am so sorry ...and I understand these emotions...It certainly doesn't feel good..I mean, you have feelings for this man..and it just feels like you give, and give..and you don't get anything back.

My suggestion is to help someone with their relationship...help someone who has a broken heart...give them your gifts..your joyfullness, your compassion and...I don't know you well..but your precious gifts..and I believe you will receive these things back...and the right person will find you...someone you trust who loves and cherishes you.

I am so, so sorry. I feel for you . Your situation is certainly not easy.

Blessings to you.

Hi INFJs,

I guess I need some advice from the people who will understand!

I’ve been friends with this guy for most of three years, and for most of that time I have also been attracted to him. I suppose that like many INFJs, I often have a hard time separating what feels like a particularly close friendship with someone of the opposite sex, from the possibility of romance. I think it is possible that he liked me when he first knew me, but that the moment passed with neither of us actively doing anything – or he wasn’t in the right place for a serious relationship, though I think I would have been – and then we went into the friend zone, although still with me hoping for more. (It’s also quite possible that he was only ever interested in me as a friend and I misread some things, though I think I could be forgiven for doing so.)

He hasn’t done the MBTI test (that I know of!) but I think he is either ESTP or ESFP – maybe ESxP? I can’t say I’m too good at typing people without them taking the test! He has a very charming and attractive personality (and is also attractive physically) and is extremely good at knowing what to say to people, and how to act around them, so that he is generally well liked – he certainly has a huge circle of friends and acquaintances. However, a few of my friends who either see through him or think they do say that he’s shallow. He’s an excellent person for a fun and witty conversation, and sometimes for deeper, more reflective conversations. He loves travelling, drinking (though he has been trying to cut back), social occasions (though there he also seems to be trying to cut back…not quite sure about that though), meeting new people, having interesting experiences. He is very fond of his family (his parents and sister – don’t worry, he’s not married!!) and seems to place a lot of value on being close to them. I should mention that we both belong to a faith where dating is viewed as a possible prelude to marriage, so neither of us would embark on casual relationships – although he has loads of female friends and I’m sure at least a few are interested in him, he seems to be avoiding the whole relationship thing quite effectively.

It is also worth noting that we had a period of estrangement last year but got through it eventually. I was tired and angry because he seemed to be using me in various ways (mainly asking me for lots of favours, which normally I am happy to do for my friends) and I wasn’t getting anything back – he was ignoring me a lot, cancelling on me, not bothering to include me, and so on, and I couldn’t understand why, and also I would have to say I was becoming jealous because he seemed to be paying some mutual female friends/acquaintances a lot of special attention (perhaps of the kind I was somewhat used to from him.) I blew up one night and sent him some angry texts about how he was using me, etc etc and he replied (NOT what I had even confronted him about) that apparently it was impossible to be just friends with girls, and friendship was all he wanted. I avoided him for a few months, but he made some overtures as a friend and eventually we had a proper conversation about it and he apologised for being inconsistent with me and if I felt like I was being used.

Subsequently we’ve gone back to a more or less close friendship, although I still have rather confused feelings about him. It is also fair to say that he has been more careful with me. He doesn’t ask me for favours all the time any more, if I do him a favour he makes sure that he really expresses his appreciation, and he backs away if he can see that a conversation we’re having is likely to end with me getting upset. But lately I feel like he is being inconsistent with me again, and it is really troubling me. Over the last month he was texting me all the time – well, every few days anyway, and we’d have these long exchanges (often just about silly in-jokes, that sort of thing, occasionally on more serious subjects). Sometimes I initiated the texting but about as often it was him. He travels a lot and he’d text me before he left on his trip, and when he got back, and he’d text me when I got back from a trip, etc… We also had a couple of good long meaty conversations where we talked about our thoughts about the future, how we feel about the place we live, etc.

Then the last couple of weeks he’s just gone quiet. I thought that possibly he was mad at me because I’d made a slightly stupid/possibly insulting joke at his expense in a text, but honestly, it was not that bad and it would be very unlike him to take offense at something like that, or if he did, it would only last for five minutes – he does forgive and forget. No, it seems like he’s just gone quiet. I didn’t want to start desperately texting or something sad like that but I did text him a couple of times in the last week – once he didn’t reply at all (which is unlike him) and the other time he gave me a rather cold and polite reply. I am just tired of this inconsistency, like one minute I’m his best friend and possibly even more, and then I hardly exist. It is possible that something’s going on with him that I don’t know about – he’s exceptionally busy, he’s upset about something totally unrelated to me, etc - but how am I supposed to know? I don’t think I can really confront him and say “why were you texting me all the time for several weeks, and now you seem to be ignoring me?” This is sort of what led up to our bust-up last year, and I don’t want the same thing to happen again though I could feel the possibility building up.

I do realise that this is mainly about my unrequited feelings for the guy, and I know it is unhealthy to hang onto these, nurture them, and in the process let things like this upset me as much as they do. Since I’m aware that we probably wouldn’t be very good for each other even if he was interested in me, I would love to be able to switch the feelings off, but it’s virtually impossible. I could try to cut him out of my life, but we have too many mutual friends, etc for that to be completely possible, and the fact is, next time he’s acting friendly and wants a good long chat with me, or whatever, I’ll probably go right back to him. I’m just not that tough about friends, particularly guy friends I also have feelings for!

Sorry for rambling on and on…I know this is really long. But if you have any suggestions for how I can approach this situation/this friendship, how I can better deal with these useless and frustrating feelings, etc, I’d really appreciate it.

Thanks all!

 

[SilkRoad]

Thanks all – I really appreciate you reading my long rambling story and your insightful comments. By the way, I addressed my initial message to fellow INFJs but of course I am very happy to get the perspective of any type! I’ve been lurking and reading here for quite a while, and the insights are so good I just had to get them on my own situation!

I have to say that much of what you all said has been in the back of my mind in some way, but it’s great to get outside perspectives and have others articulate what sometimes you find so hard to spell out to yourself. I don’t know yet how I’m going to handle this situation. After we patched things up last year, I told myself I had to keep more distance, but now it seems that I’ve failed to do so. I think there is much to be said for the “polite distance” thing. I could confront him, but I am scared to do it, I have to admit. His response last time I tried to do that was fairly harsh and too close to the bone and I had a lot of stress and anguish while we were estranged. Of course, I might have touched a raw nerve with him – at the time I was angry and upset and I kind of set out to hurt him, and I can be surprisingly good at that when I get to that point. But while I don’t want to hurt his feelings, I am quite a bit more eager to protect my own, and I think a confrontation might lead to a very hurtful outcome for me that would take me a long time to recover from (based on my past experience with situations somewhat resembling this.)

Part of me wants to do the classic INFJ doorslam on this person, but it would be difficult and wouldn’t give me much relief, I don’t think. I tried to do it with him last year, but it was painful. I doorslammed someone years ago, for three years, when they had just shown me too much disrespect and total lack of care for my feelings, but it haunted me. I had a recurring dream about him for years. Eventually we spoke again and patched things up, and I was able to let go – but the good thing there was also that he wasn’t really in my life any more. I mean, we exchange a cordial email every couple of years, but that’s it.

The current ESxP guy – you know, I’m not sure he is even capable of understanding how much the whole inconsistency thing hurts me. I tried to explain it to him last year, but I don’t think he got it. (While I said that he apologised to me, which was true, I didn’t mention that he had to be guided toward it and wouldn’t have done it on his own. The overtures that he made consisted of texting me a couple of times to see if I was ok, making silly jokes to try and lighten the atmosphere, and bringing a peace offering from our mutual home country – we’re both ex-pats. All of which were nice, but rather immature. I had to spell everything out to him in the end.) He’d been dropping me for his party friends, basically, and when I pointed out that he was acting sometimes like my best friend, and sometimes like I didn’t exist, he said something lame like “oh, but I didn’t think you liked those kinds of social occasions.” But the thing that gets me is, it’s not like I fall for EVERY guy I’m friends with (though I do tend to fall for friends, when I fall.) He’s contributed to the situation by turning the charm offensive on me ferociously – when it suits him – saying and doing things that made me feel special (though I later realised that a few of those were undoubtedly triggered by him having had too much to drink.) When I first knew him I really thought he liked me. He was always finding ways to get me away from the crowd, have a few drinks and intense conversation for hours on our own – which is a killer for me. If he was consistently just a good friend, without singling me out half the time and forgetting my existence the other half, there is a good chance we could just have a friendship even if I had some feelings I wasn’t dealing with. His approach is just too thoughtless and selfish, and I really need to defend myself before I get hurt worse.

The fact is, if I admit it to myself – I’m not sure I have ever really trusted him. ESxP types are supposed to be chameleons, and while I can flatter myself that he’s showing me “the real him” when he tells me about his feelings or shows a more thoughtful side, who really knows? His party friends presumably think they know “the real him” too. It’s certainly a useful skill to be able to get along with and mirror all types, but I don’t think it makes anyone too trustworthy.

RuffledINTP – your situation sounds so, so much like mine, except I suspect I’ve let mine drag on longer. “He had a knack for hurting me but I just excused it away because I liked him so much” – yes. I wish I had let his unpleasant reaction last year kill any feelings I had right then, and been strong enough to ignore his overtures, but my feelings die very very hard, if ever.

Thanks for the help and kind thoughts, people. I might be back for more advice or to shed a few tears over this situation at some point, we’ll see. But I hope I’ll be posting occasionally in other threads too…

 

[Mort Belfry]

That sounds like an ESTP co-worker of mine, (though possible ESFP) and the remnants he had of a relationship with an IN_J. She is constantly trying to talk to him but he refuses to - and it's not because he's angry at her, it's just indifference and a little sadism. He actually enjoys making her feel like an idiot when she tries to extend the olive branch.

 

[Halla74]

That sounds like an ESTP co-worker of mine, (though possible ESFP) and the remnants he had of a relationship with an IN_J. She is constantly trying to talk to him but he refuses to - and it's not because he's angry at her, it's just indifference and a little sadism. He actually enjoys making her feel like an idiot when she tries to extend the olive branch.

Sounds like an asshole!

 

[jenocyde]

E_ _ Ps are charmers, and we do live in the moment, but do not discount us as insincere, shallow, or unable to commit. Once we do make the decision to commit, it is very real. The worst thing you can do to a E_ _ P in s relationship is make them feel rejected. If this happens too much and feel it is unwarranted we have a tendency to be inclined to move on.

Halla is once again correct.
(and I'm happy for you, man!!)

The current ESxP guy – you know, I’m not sure he is even capable of understanding how much the whole inconsistency thing hurts me. I tried to explain it to him last year, but I don’t think he got it. (While I said that he apologised to me, which was true, I didn’t mention that he had to be guided toward it and wouldn’t have done it on his own. The overtures that he made consisted of texting me a couple of times to see if I was ok, making silly jokes to try and lighten the atmosphere, and bringing a peace offering from our mutual home country – we’re both ex-pats. All of which were nice, but rather immature. I had to spell everything out to him in the end.)

Maybe he pulled away because he feels that you don't take him seriously? If he understands why you're upset but is not sorry because he didn't do anything, why should you force him to say that he is? Words are empty and meaningless. Anyone can say anything. He reached out to you by doing a few nice gestures and you wrote it off as immature. He was trying to be start over. But you only accept him as mature when you force him to say words he doesn't mean? I think immaturity is making too much of a situation and not recognizing the efforts that others make for you. Holding a grudge, and rejecting me for it, is the quickest way to get left in the dust, imo. Just another side of the coin - may not apply to you specifically.

The fact is, if I admit it to myself – I’m not sure I have ever really trusted him. ESxP types are supposed to be chameleons, and while I can flatter myself that he’s showing me “the real him” when he tells me about his feelings or shows a more thoughtful side, who really knows? His party friends presumably think they know “the real him” too. It’s certainly a useful skill to be able to get along with and mirror all types, but I don’t think it makes anyone too trustworthy.

All of those pieces of him are the real him. Who else would it be? Do you show the same part of yourself to your boss that you show to your mom? For some reason, I get offended when someone accuses me of being insincere just because I like and get along with all types in all situations. It doesn't mean that I like you any less...

 

[SilkRoad]

Maybe he pulled away because he feels that you don't take him seriously? If he understands why you're upset but is not sorry because he didn't do anything, why should you force him to say that he is? Words are empty and meaningless. Anyone can say anything. He reached out to you by doing a few nice gestures and you wrote it off as immature. He was trying to be start over. But you only accept him as mature when you force him to say words he doesn't mean? I think immaturity is making too much of a situation and not recognizing the efforts that others make for you. Holding a grudge, and rejecting me for it, is the quickest way to get left in the dust, imo. Just another side of the coin - may not apply to you specifically.

Well...I don't think it would be fair to say that I wrote his gestures off as immature. I mean, I accepted his overtures and his apologies and thought we could move on and be friends again. Nor did I force him to apologise...he did that freely, but I had to lead him there first. I suppose that applies to a lot of us, though. And I don't think he understood when we had the blow-up last year why I was upset. Well...he did guess that I liked him, but we didn't even go there when we patched it up later. I didn't bring it up, and I have a feeling that he thought/thinks either that he made a mistake and I didn't have feelings for him, or that I did but had put them aside and moved on. But I actually said to him directly "do you understand what I've been upset about for the better part of 3 months?" And he said "Not really..." I then told him I couldn't handle the inconsistency.

I suppose it is possible he thinks I don't take him seriously, but I don't really think that's the problem here. I enjoy the lighthearted side of him, it's one thing I found attractive about him, though I also feel like he sometimes takes it too far - but he definitely thinks I sometimes takes the seriousness too far, and he'd be right! I prefer the serious conversations we have though, because that's more the way I'm inclined. I listen, I don't belittle his feelings...I don't think that's the problem here. I'm more inclined to think that I fall into the category of "interesting variety" for a while, since I think it's fair to say I'm quite different from a lot of his friends...so he pays me tons of attention intermittently, and then gets bored. If I had straightforward friend feelings for him, this might not be a big problem (though I value consistency in my friends), but given that I do seem to still have feelings, it is just making things hard for me.

 

[jenocyde]

This is how I see the situation and I'm not trying to hurt you - I hope you understand this. I'm just letting you know how it is from my perspective. I've been in his situation a LOT with men (I'm female, btw...)

I say "not really" for 2 reasons:
1. because I'm tired of talking about it
2. because I don't want to hurt your feelings

But believe me, I know and understand.


If you were upset that he dissed you, why didn't you tell him then, or the next day? He would know why you are upset and not do it again (or do it rarely - hey, he's human...) Saving up all these slights for one big blow up is not the way to handle things with EPs. It makes no sense to be upset anymore. It didn't bother you before, so why now?

And "using" you??? At that point, I would think you had lost your mind. When someone blows up at me like that, I also assume it's because men and women can't be friends. If we were really friends, you would have just told me in the first place... He obviously knew you liked him and wanted to tell you that you would only ever be friends. And that the argument is really stemming from you wanting more than he was willing to give, so you get angry when he pulls away. In his mind (and in mine) he did address your angry texts by cutting right to the chase and calling a spade a spade.

He was honest and sincere without trying to hurt your feelings.

And then you "lead" him to an apology (by guilt? by constantly harping about it?)... He recognized that you liked him more than he likes you, and he recognized that he may have embarrassed you by pointing it out. So he tries to make amends in a way that takes the pressure off (jokes, texts...)

All those long, "meaty" talks can be quite draining to an EP, so maybe he just needs some space. But I think it's wise to assume that you guys are not a match made in heaven. Almost any kind of EP would have made a move by now - it's been 3 years already, just move on because he wants to be friends and it's clear that you can't be.

 

[SilkRoad]

Your points are valid, but I don't think you quite understand. As far as "leading him to an apology"...by that, I mean I explained why my feelings had been hurt, and he apologised. Actually, to be specific, I blew up at him, he sent me a rather mean (well, certainly not kind) text back...which I can't entirely blame him for, but it still wasn't pleasant. I replied "you don't get it, I just wanted you to act like a friend"...which I fully admit was true, but dishonest in that it wasn't the whole truth. I did feel he was not treating me as a friend should (by constantly asking me for favours, and then forgetting my existence, etc), but of course I had other feelings involved as well. The next day I called him and left a message saying I had been under a lot of stress when I texted him (true) and I was sorry if I'd said anything I shouldn't have, also that I hoped we could still be on "good terms." He replied the next day and said he would never have sent texts like that to someone he considered a friend...but let's just move on. I wanted to just move on, but I felt shaken and hurt and just didn't want to be around him at all. At least I had managed to say "sorry if I said something I shouldn't", but he didn't even manage to say "sorry if I've managed to hurt your feelings." So I avoided him almost completely for 3 months. He deserves credit for making some overtures, by the way. For whatever reason, he still wanted me in his life. But I certainly didn't harp on the situation. The conversation where he apologised to me was the first thing we'd had in months beyond very brief exchanges, and I "led him to it" by asking if he understood why I'd been upset, and then explaining. I don't think that counts as forcing an apology. Actually, it's pretty clear he would have been happy with us just going back to being friends without discussing what had happened, but for me it was just too much of an elephant in the room. And I should also mention that since we cleared the air in this way - about nine or ten months ago, I think - I haven't brought it up once in any way. I don't think I was holding it against him - until he started acting like this again, seeking me out repeatedly, and then vanishing. Understandably, I think, I'm having flashbacks to what happened last year.

I know the saving it up and then blowing up thing is not healthy, sensible or constructive, but I guess it's a bit of an INFJ thing. Not that it's a great excuse, but it is something that's happened to me a few times in my life...only a few times. It happens after I've given someone the benefit of the doubt for a long, long time and they keep letting me down - the anger has a way of building up and then erupting. You're going to say it's not his fault that I like him more than he likes me. Fair enough, that's true. But I don't feel that excuses the hot and cold friendship style or the inconsistency. I'd like to point out that he initiated the intense level of friendship that we've had, albeit intermittently. I don't have friends of either gender who I text almost every day for weeks, often affectionate texts, at length, etc...and then disappear completely. I don't think that's fair on anyone. I didn't initiate the frequent intense conversations that we had particularly when we first knew each other (partly because he didn't know as many people in this city then and I was around and available for chats, I think), and I haven't forced him to bare his feelings.

 

[jenocyde]

Ok fine. You know the situation far better than I do. I take it all back. Good luck and hope it works out.

 

[SilkRoad]

I guess I do know the situation better than you, but I'm not sure why you're obviously irritated with me?

 

[jenocyde]

I'm not irritated with you in the least. I don't get why you think it's "obvious".

I am sincere when speaking to you, but I think that you keep making excuses to paint yourself and your intentions in the best light. I don't want to shine truth in your eyes, if you are not ready to accept it. I said that I don't want to hurt your feelings, so I'd rather just keep my mouth shut. You will tell me that I just don't understand. Even though I've told you I've been in his exact position more than once. But I see that anyone who pats you on the back is obviously understanding of you. So I'm deducing that you would rather be comforted than advised, so I withdrew because I'm not sure how to be comforting. It's not my strong point. But there is no irritation at all on my behalf.

 

[Nyota]

I'm not irritated with you in the least. I don't get why you think it's "obvious".

I am sincere when speaking to you, but I think that you keep making excuses to paint yourself and your intentions in the best light. I don't want to shine truth in your eyes, if you are not ready to accept it. I said that I don't want to hurt your feelings, so I'd rather just keep my mouth shut. You will tell me that I just don't understand. Even though I've told you I've been in his exact position more than once. But I see that anyone who pats you on the back is obviously understanding of you. So I'm deducing that you would rather be comforted than advised, so I withdrew because I'm not sure how to be comforting. It's not my strong point. But there is no irritation at all on my behalf.

Advice is good, but only if the person knows that it actually applies to them. If silkroad thinks its not applicable, how can you say it is? You have not, in fact, been in the "exact position" as you are not her... do not mislead yourself.

 

[jenocyde]

Which is why I withdrew in the first place. See above. But thanks for the verbal bitchslap.

 

[Nyota]

Which is why I withdrew in the first place. See above. But thanks for the verbal bitchslap.

Ahhhh! Where's all the love gone? Just trying to make things right...oh....my infj dislike of conflict is showing. Please know I didn't mean to "bitchslap" you... just trying to resolve the 'arguement'. Can we still be friends?

 

[jenocyde]

Ahhhh! Where's all the love gone? Just trying to make things right...oh....my infj dislike of conflict is showing. Please know I didn't mean to "bitchslap" you... just trying to resolve the 'arguement'. Can we still be friends?

No harm, no foul. You see things one way and I see them another. There is no argument as far as I can see. I've been in very similar situations as that guy (I won't use the word exact anymore, my bad) and I was just trying to give her another perspective. But I am out of my element here... I'll just go back and play in the NT forum. Seriously, no offense taken and none given. I promise. Friends? Yes.